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Would this be overstocked?

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Would this be overstocked?
Old 07-19-2008, 09:10 PM   #11
 
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IMHO I don't think you would be over stocked:

I have made quite a few mistakes in the last few years:
a) dead fish
b) wrong fish
c) wrong Equiptment

I now have tanks that are much happier and the fish don't hide, that make me happy I've had tanks with fish in them and never saw any of them IMHO you will not be happy with your tank if all you see is decor, rocks, and water.

good luck with your tank and remember one thing everyone has a opinion some are right some are wrong
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:11 AM   #12
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by qpc68
I'm pretty new here and not one to (usually) step on toes. But, at the risk of alienating myself and eliminating any chance of future help, I have to say to Kim, PDX, and Pasfur, if the guy wants to keep a swimming pool filled with guppies and a 12 foot crocodile with an over-eating disorder, what business is it of yours? As long as he's not poisoning these fish or dropping them in a trash can at a gas station what's the problem. Dude's going to make mistakes, he's going to learn from them. I'm sure each of you NEVER made any mistakes when entering this H-O-B-B-Y, but not all of us are perfectionists like you three. If you want to give the guy advice, fantastic. If you want to make suggestions, awesome. But when you pull this "I'm smarter than you so do what I tell you" routine and tell the guy he should give up the hobby (what??) because you don't like the way he's operating...well it's pretty damn lame.
Specifically to PDX...If your not in this hobby for yourself than what the hell's the point? I agree there should be a balance and you need to take care of your fish. But give me a break.
I am not into the hobby? What are you talking about? I had my first tank over 15 years ago. And yes, I did make mistakes, we all did. But the big difference is that the information accessible to us used to be much more limited than that of a beginner today. And even THEN the people more knowledgeable than us would give us hell if we tried something irresponsible. Today, every beginner can get answers from a million resources online. It is not necessary to make dozens of fish pay for your mistakes. Would you say the same if we were talking about puppies?

Quote:
If you care more about fish than yourself, well that says a lot.
Go read my post again. Think. Then you may come to the conclusion that I do not care more about fish than myself, but that I care more about the well-being of living creatures than about the design of a fish tank. I assume and really hope you are angry at me and just don't want to understand. It makes me sick when people think of fish as disposable interior design. This has nothing to do with I-am-smarter-than-you, this is simply a matter of respect.
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:41 AM   #13
 
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Back to the original stocking scheme The DANIOS can and will outcompete with just about every fish in the tank for food. I believe anyone who has fed them can attest to that. Sometimes one finds themselves overfeeding to compensate trying to ensure that other fish get their fair share and over time water quality becomes an issue.
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Old 07-20-2008, 01:28 AM   #14
 
PDX
You misunderstood. I did not say you weren't into this hobby. I said IF your not into this hobby for yourself, meaning if you aren't doing it because it brings you joy, because you want to do it, and because you have a plan or strategy which you wish to implement, then why would you do it? I'm not referring to YOU, but people in general. If someone elses plan isn't ideal to you ok. But it's not as if, in this case, these fish are just going to die when he puts them in the tank is it? Maybe they won't be as happy as they could be, but with proper care they will grow and mature yes? It's not as if, again in this case, someone is buying fish to purposely poison them, or even to accidentally place them in a situation that will cause a swift and painful death right?
My experience is without a doubt non-existent compared to yours and pretty much everyone else on this forum. However, given that information is more accessible today than ever before, I do know that A) these fish, assuming all the necessary things (feeding, filtering) are handled properly, will not be put into an unsafe or contaminated environment B) There are exceptions to every rule (even those in fish-keeping) and C) and this is from personal experience (not in fish-keeping), most people can be told 1,000 times to do something one way and still won't do it until they commit the mistakes which prove to them the best way to do it was the way they were told. Does that make sense?
I understand that you don't care more for fish than yourself. That's not what I meant to imply. The point I was trying to make was in reference to your What do my fish need?" not "what do I want?" statement. I understand your point about providing the best environment for the fish. And I agreed with you. However, that has to fit within the confines of what the individual fish-keeper desires. There are limitations each individual must overcome (tank size, finances, etc.) which in some cases can prohibit the ability to provide exactly what each fish needs. You'll argue that, in such a case, the individual should then re-consider his own wants. In which case I will argue that the best solution, in my mind, is to find a compromise between what is best for the fish and what the individual wants as long as the fish is not placed in mortal danger.
And I'm not angry with anyone. However, and I'm assuming this is the nature of the game so to speak, I do notice that some of the experienced aquariasts (correct term?) get a little preachy from time to time. Perhaps I will to. But I think the original poster was unjustly chastized by some of you and that is what I have a problem with.
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:44 PM   #15
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qpc68
Maybe they won't be as happy as they could be, but with proper care they will grow and mature yes? It's not as if, again in this case, someone is buying fish to purposely poison them, or even to accidentally place them in a situation that will cause a swift and painful death right?
Sorry qpc68 but this really grinds my gears. Being a very compassionate person, and loving all animals, I simply cannot agree with what you have said.

I personally don't give a crap if your fish will grow and mature in conditions that are not appropriate for it. The point is, you've put the fish in this situation and it is your responsibility to make sure the fish is happy and 'properly cared for.' In my opinion, if all needs of the fish are not met then in no way are you properly caring for you animals.

Nothing pisses me off more then people who see fish as disposable creatures, not saying thats how you are seeing your fish. But your saying its fine if this guy wants to go ahead with something thats clearly not in the best interest of his fish. These poor creatures who have no other choice but to live inside the environment you supply them with.

This person has come to this forum looking for advice on how to properly care for his fish, but now that hes realized it means he will have to make sacrifices to how he planned his aquarium to work out, he suddenly doesn't want to hear it anymore. Thats straight up selfish and I won't tolerate it, either will the other members on this forum.

My point being, everyone here on this forum was a beginner at some point, and obviously came to this forum for help. The only difference being they listened to the advice given to them. So I share their frustration when they come across someone who doesn't want to listen to them because it interferes with their plans.

He may not have bought these fish with the intention of poisoning them or causing a painful death, but we've told him thats whats going to happen, and he doesn't care. It's just as bad as if he bought the fish with the intentions of killing them.

If you don't want our help, then don't ask for it. And if your not willing to take our advice to heart, then don't take a creatures life into your own hands. I don't care if fish are the dumbest creature on earth, They deserve the same respect and care you would give to your dog or cat. And in no way should these fish have to suffer in an environment that doesn't meet their needs due to some selfish persons actions, or lack of actions.
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:48 PM   #16
 
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As others have stated, there is a risk of mortal danger here. Certain fish (rainbows included) will not function without the safety of a group. A single fish will sit in a corner, terrified. Its immune system will suffer and it could very well die of starvation or disease.

Sure, people make mistakes in the hobby, but I agree completely that these mistakes should, at worst, be made because of ignorance. If instead they are made out of a wanton lack of consideration for the fish then that's a different story altogether. I'm going to assume that the OP was acting out of ignorance here and that he was unaware that a singly kept rainbowfish is a mistreated rainbowfish.
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:51 PM   #17
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1077
Back to the original stocking scheme The DANIOS can and will outcompete with just about every fish in the tank for food. I believe anyone who has fed them can attest to that. Sometimes one finds themselves overfeeding to compensate trying to ensure that other fish get their fair share and over time water quality becomes an issue.
This was definitely the case with my danios for the first few months I had them, but this has calmed down significantly. I think maybe the fish had bigger appetites because they were still growing. Now that they've stopped growing they seem to eat much less. Also, they don't tend to go after food that's fallen below the top 6" or so of the water column, so if the danios are eating up all of your flake you might want to try a mixture of flake and sinking crumbles so that every fish gets some food.
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Old 07-21-2008, 12:55 PM   #18
 
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I personally believe you can keep just one of anything in your own tank. Will that specimen be happy if it is a social fish that enjoys tankmates? probably not. Will the fish display its natural colors or activities? Probably not? Will the fish be more prone to stress and thus disease? probably so. Are there those who view fish as more than property? absolutely.
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Old 07-21-2008, 02:59 PM   #19
 
I don't see anywhere that he says he didn't care about the fish.

I understand what's good for the fish and what's not. I understand that each fish has it's own needs and requirements. And I also know that even you and most/all others here have and will again place fish or other animals in undesirable circumstances.

If you want me to believe that every person on this forum, including yourself, has listened to every bit of advice given to them than you're out of your mind. What kind of a bs statement is that? If you've really never learned anything on your own and just relied on people to tell you how to do something, than how the hell do you know?

I'm not going to argue this point anymore. I think it's run it's course. The point is, and what grinded MY gears, that this person was told he should quit this hobby because of the fish he chose to keep together. What kind of an attitude is that? Completely lame. Attacking someone and telling them to give up because they aren't doing what you think they should be doing is absolutely stupid.

As far as the dog/cat vs fish argument, give it a rest already. They are all animals and should be treated equally and all that blah blah blah. Ok I get it, and I agree with you. From an economical standpoint they ARE more dispensable than dogs/cats because (A) they are cheaper (B) they are easier to populate and produce and (C) they are easier to dispose of. Blasphemy I know, but am I wrong? Does that mean, because I understand and realize that this is the way the REAL world is, that I treat my fish poorly or would just toss one in the trash when I got bored with it? Of course not. Does that mean that I don't care about my fish? Nope. But reality sucks, and reality is controlled by dollars and cents and dollars and cents dictates that dogs and cats get more love than fish. I bet the people who spend $250 on a discus love their fish very much. Whereas the people who spend $.99 on a guppy may not have the same attachment to it as their $400 dog, and aren't too upset if it dies a few days after they get it. If you want to change the way people think, like many of you have in most areas of our new 'culture', than go right on ahead. The Church of Political Correctness rivals the Catholic Church when it comes to brutally and unforgivingly converting non-believers. The reality is that as long as our world is controlled by money and our society revolves around the desire for MORE money things that cost more will be cherished more. Therefore, dogs/cats are worth more fish. If you want to hold on to some naive view that this is going to change than knock yourself out. I wish you the best of luck.

Now take that statement, twist it around, and make me the bad guy.
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Old 07-21-2008, 03:02 PM   #20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by iamntbatman
Certain fish (rainbows included) will not function without the safety of a group..
I was thinking of getting four boesemani rainbowfish down the road. Is that a sufficient number for them? I know the standard "school" size quoted is six, but I have heard that 4 of the rainbows is enough to keep them happy.
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