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World Of Fish [Video]

This is a discussion on World Of Fish [Video] within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Originally Posted by AbbeysDad Yep, I'm a 'fan' of the conventional UGF having used them successfully over the last 40+ years I may have ...

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World Of Fish [Video]
Old 09-07-2011, 02:46 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by AbbeysDad View Post
Yep, I'm a 'fan' of the conventional UGF having used them successfully over the last 40+ years
I may have misled you when I said I prefer the UG system...I meant in a store. Not at home. I was raised on UG filtration, and up to 1996 used it myself, then I was convinced by the store employee to buy a canister for my new 115g tank and I've never looked back.

UG filters work well, no one can possibly deny that, given their proven track record. But they have some serious limitations concerning plants and bacteria in the substrate.
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Old 09-07-2011, 03:05 PM   #12
 
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That is usually the norm in stores that still have individually-filtered tanks [as opposed to all the tanks being interconnected so the water flows from tank to tank and underneath the tanks through a filter]. In the situation where you have more fish in each tank than would work long-term with consequently more waste, a UG pulls stuff down into the gravel faster. So the tank water is clear, very clear considering the fish load. I would suspect they do weekly water changes and really vacuum the gravel; I have a local store that does this, the tanks are spotless and have fairly thick gravel beds. I prefer this system, and it isolates fish and water to each tank.
In reference to Byron's post, this system does have a lot of positives for pet stores with lots of aquariums compared to certain points in having a system of many connected tanks. Currently half the tanks at my Pet Supplies Plus are under quarantine because that entire system has shared ick all across those tanks. I'm very familiar with those people there and I will say that they have been careful and diligent about treating their tanks, they probably got the ick from their shipment that and can imagine that stuff like that can just happen. The point is mainly being that if they had individual filters for those tanks, not all of those fish would have been infected.

-On topic- That fishy store looks awesome! I used to have a locally owned aquarium store named "Wet Pets", and while it didn't have as many tanks as the World of Fish, all their tanks were very well cared for and I often found fish there that Petsmart and Pet Supplies Plus didn't stock. Unfortunately, they moved away to Cleveland and now I only have those two chain stores. D:

Last edited by OddballFishCoveter; 09-07-2011 at 03:08 PM..
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Old 09-07-2011, 05:54 PM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by OddballFishCoveter View Post
In reference to Byron's post, this system does have a lot of positives for pet stores with lots of aquariums compared to certain points in having a system of many connected tanks. Currently half the tanks at my Pet Supplies Plus are under quarantine because that entire system has shared ick all across those tanks. I'm very familiar with those people there and I will say that they have been careful and diligent about treating their tanks, they probably got the ick from their shipment that and can imagine that stuff like that can just happen. The point is mainly being that if they had individual filters for those tanks, not all of those fish would have been infected.

-On topic- That fishy store looks awesome! I used to have a locally owned aquarium store named "Wet Pets", and while it didn't have as many tanks as the World of Fish, all their tanks were very well cared for and I often found fish there that Petsmart and Pet Supplies Plus didn't stock. Unfortunately, they moved away to Cleveland and now I only have those two chain stores. D:


aww D: i hate when my fav fish stores move away then it makes me have a really long drive :P
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Old 09-07-2011, 05:55 PM   #14
 
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go back and get a picture!
hah its quite the drive :P! but im there every few weeks ill take a pic or video of him next time i go
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Old 09-07-2011, 09:00 PM   #15
 
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I may have misled you when I said I prefer the UG system...I meant in a store. Not at home. I was raised on UG filtration, and up to 1996 used it myself, then I was convinced by the store employee to buy a canister for my new 115g tank and I've never looked back.

UG filters work well, no one can possibly deny that, given their proven track record. But they have some serious limitations concerning plants and bacteria in the substrate.
I confess to never using a UGF in a heavily planted tank, or with a sand substrate, however, I'd be surprised if the gentle movement of water through the substrate would be a detriment to plants in an otherwise well managed tank. I can see how adding power heads to increase flows may be a problem.
The conventional UGF fails only when general tank maintenance fails.
I will admit that with many of today's filters and bio-media selections, the UGF is less significant than it was back in the day. Besides, in a heavily planted tank with a simple sponge filter, why bother?

It always strikes me funny when somebody uses something successfully for decades, then tries something new and 'never looks back' - I guess it's 'you always love the one your with'
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Old 09-07-2011, 09:17 PM   #16
 
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I didn't look back because my tanks were better with the canister than the UG.

The problem with pulling water down through the substrate is that it is not "normal" and this affects the bacteria and the plants. There should be a natural slow flow down and back up. I went into this in more detail in the plant articles and in the bacteria article, so I won't repeat.

True on the maintenance, but if a tank has been running for a time and the power is suddenly out for a long period--as so many have experienced over the past few months--the UG can be deadly. A canister can easily be disconnected and cleaned prior to restarting; not so the substrate.
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Old 09-07-2011, 10:41 PM   #17
 
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True on the maintenance, but if a tank has been running for a time and the power is suddenly out for a long period--as so many have experienced over the past few months--the UG can be deadly. A canister can easily be disconnected and cleaned prior to restarting; not so the substrate.
I believe this is yet another myth my friend. All things being equal, there is no more detritus in the gravel of a tank with a UGF than in a tank without. The UGF detractors will say that the rapid flow of water pulls uneaten food where the fish can't get at it if/when you over feed. Well, doh, don't over feed or over stock - but I have never seen this as the slight flow in the conventional UGF and the substrate size and depth simply does not allow it. The oxygenated water slowly moving through the gravel bed admittedly promotes more aerobic decomposition bacteria to exist than a tank without, but this just means that detritus breaks down more quickly than would otherwise be the case. This also means more inert organics and less organic material in process of decay than a tank w/o UGF. So when the power goes out, exactly what evil befalls the tank with the UGF? I say little to none. Yes, in time, w/o the oxygenated water passing through the bed, the aerobic bacteria will begin to die off and the anaerobic bacteria populations may begin to increase, but since aerobic bacteria has already processed most of the food, it's a very slow process...and this also happens in the gravel bed of the tank w/o the UGF. Besides, as we know, anaerobic bacteria can only develop in the absence of oxygen - if the oxygen in the tank water is so depleted as to promote the development of anaerobic bacteria in the substrate, where are the fish getting their O2 from???

I perform a weekly gravel siphon in the tank with the UGF, same as the tank without the UGF. I don't expect that a power outage will have a different affect in the tank with the UGF.

I will admit that in a very poor managed, neglected tank w/UGF that is barely limping along with an already foul substrate, a power failure may be the straw that breaks the camel's back...but that's in the extreme and not the fault of the UGF. It's also easier to blame a filter than admit neglect.
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Old 09-08-2011, 12:32 AM   #18
 
What is the location of this store? I go to A World of Fish in Minneapolis right by the airport. The video looks like a different store similar name. Practically all fish specialty shops I have been in run mostly UGF.
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Old 09-08-2011, 10:49 AM   #19
 
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I believe this is yet another myth my friend. All things being equal, there is no more detritus in the gravel of a tank with a UGF than in a tank without. The UGF detractors will say that the rapid flow of water pulls uneaten food where the fish can't get at it if/when you over feed. Well, doh, don't over feed or over stock - but I have never seen this as the slight flow in the conventional UGF and the substrate size and depth simply does not allow it. The oxygenated water slowly moving through the gravel bed admittedly promotes more aerobic decomposition bacteria to exist than a tank without, but this just means that detritus breaks down more quickly than would otherwise be the case. This also means more inert organics and less organic material in process of decay than a tank w/o UGF. So when the power goes out, exactly what evil befalls the tank with the UGF? I say little to none. Yes, in time, w/o the oxygenated water passing through the bed, the aerobic bacteria will begin to die off and the anaerobic bacteria populations may begin to increase, but since aerobic bacteria has already processed most of the food, it's a very slow process...and this also happens in the gravel bed of the tank w/o the UGF. Besides, as we know, anaerobic bacteria can only develop in the absence of oxygen - if the oxygen in the tank water is so depleted as to promote the development of anaerobic bacteria in the substrate, where are the fish getting their O2 from???
The issue is incorrectly stated here. It is not the detritus/waste/organics that are the problem, but the bacteria. When you have an UG filter, the bulk of the nitrifying bacteria will be in the substrate. They need oxygen, continually, though they can manage for short periods. But as I explain in the bacteria article, the other bacteria can easily overwhelm the nitrifying in any space. And this other bacteria can use oxygen and will since it multiples considerably faster (within 20 minutes) than the nitrifying bacteria (requiring up to 20 hours), so the other bacteria overwhelms and suffocates the nitrifying, plus there is no oxygen if the power is off.

I have used the term "other bacteria" because it can either use oxygen but it can also manage without oxygen, or create its own. Calling it "anaerobic" may be misleading.

So the problem when the UG shuts down is that the "other" bacteria continues to do its thing and multiply even faster, but the ammonia produced by the breakdown of the organics as well as the fish continues to rise as there is insufficient nitrifying bacteria. Now, this partially occurs in any filter when the flow is stopped for long periods, but at least with the canister it does not get back into the aquarium to poison the fish. The nitrifying bacteria in the aquarium proper will continue filter or no filter for the most part. But with the UG the bulk of nitrifying bacteria is in the substrate.
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Old 09-08-2011, 03:51 PM   #20
 
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The issue is incorrectly stated here. It is not the detritus/waste/organics that are the problem, but the bacteria.
All due respect, but I see this differently...I borrowed the following (that is echoed in many expert sources):
"If a UGF has been in operation for any length of time, solid organic waste may be in abundance in the gravel and under the plates. While the filter is running properly, these degrade aerobically into compounds like nitrates and phosphates which may be algae stimulants and fish growth inhibitors, but at least are not generally toxic. If water flow is halted, oxygen becomes unavailable in the gravel, and these same waste products break down anaerobically into much more noxious compounds like hydrogen sulfide and methane."

So, the problem during a power outage it is not so much the decline of nitrifying bacteria or the increase in 'other' bacteria, but the decay of detritus by ('other') anaerobic bacteria that produces toxic compounds.

As I mentioned, my weekly gravel siphoning results in a substrate condition that is not significantly different in the tank with the UGF than the tank that does not have the UGF. If/when the power fails, there is no real difference in the substrates with regard to decomposing orgaincs. In both tanks, nitrifying bacteria in the substrate may suffer, but there's not much we can do about that.

Now, having written the above, again, it can not be understated that a tank with a UGF and a substrate that contains an abundance of decomposing organic waste, the outcome resulting from a power failure may be very bad!
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