Water change help Please read - Page 2 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #11 of 19 Old 02-11-2013, 08:58 AM
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FWIW

If you change out 1% ofthe water each day, Water paremeters will be constant assuming the input water never changes and the tank never changes as well.

And that constant value will equal the value before any water change that is 1%/day. Like 10% every 10 days, 20% every 20 days and so on. What will change is tha values after the water changes.


In my tanks is just get the tank changes so low any water change is not necessary.

But that just my .02

maintain Fw and marine system with a strong emphasis on balanced, stabilized system that as much as possible are self substaning.

have maintained FW systems for up to 9 years with descendants from original fish and marine aquariums for up to 8 years.

With no water changes, untreated tap water, inexpensive lighting by first starting the tank with live plants (FW) or macro algae( marine)

see: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/a...-build-295530/
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post #12 of 19 Old 02-11-2013, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by beaslbob View Post
FWIW

If you change out 1% ofthe water each day, Water paremeters will be constant assuming the input water never changes and the tank never changes as well.

And that constant value will equal the value before any water change that is 1%/day. Like 10% every 10 days, 20% every 20 days and so on. What will change is tha values after the water changes.


In my tanks is just get the tank changes so low any water change is not necessary.

But that just my .02

Your math does not work in tank's where fish food's and fish waste are collecting,increasingly each day.
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The most important medication in your fish medicine cabinet is.. Clean water.
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post #13 of 19 Old 02-11-2013, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by 1077 View Post
Your math does not work in tank's where fish food's and fish waste are collecting,increasingly each day.
Say the fish waste resulted in an increase of 1ppm per day of nitrates (the most pervasive measurable toxin, but it could be anything and it certainly isn't the only thing) and you were flowing 1 gallon per day continuously that would be about equivalent to a 3.4% daily water change.

The nitrate buildup would reach an equilibrium level of 29ppm in 14 weeks. So either you want to up the changing or have a lower production of nitrate. Lots of live plants will do that as they allow most of the ammonia to bypass the whole nitrification process.

Increasing it to 10% reduces the maximum level to 10ppm and 4 weeks to equilibrium.

I considered doing something similar but the tank ended up being located where I couldn't easily feed and drain the water.

Two heaters would be best in this setup, although two in colder environments should be used anyway. I had a recent experience with one heater not providing enough heat for the ambient temperature in the room and a drop in water temp that resulted... other factors were involved but two heaters would have worked better. You are feeding cold water regularly.

Jeff.


Total years fish keeping experience: 7 months, can't start counting in years for a while yet.

The shotgun approach to a planted tank with an LED fixture

Small scale nitrogen cycle with a jar, water and fish food; no substrate, filter etc
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post #14 of 19 Old 02-11-2013, 10:26 AM
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Your math does not work in tank's where fish food's and fish waste are collecting,increasingly each day.
You analysis is lacking.

What you are not considering is the water change removes those increases.

what happens the tank will increase until the build up is great enough the water change removes the build up between water changes. At that point a "steady state" or balance is achieved.

and that is what you are not considering.


I think.



my .02

maintain Fw and marine system with a strong emphasis on balanced, stabilized system that as much as possible are self substaning.

have maintained FW systems for up to 9 years with descendants from original fish and marine aquariums for up to 8 years.

With no water changes, untreated tap water, inexpensive lighting by first starting the tank with live plants (FW) or macro algae( marine)

see: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/a...-build-295530/
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post #15 of 19 Old 02-11-2013, 10:29 AM
Enough. Back to the task at hand. Bob.......
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post #16 of 19 Old 02-11-2013, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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For 29 gal, I might consider Swordtail's,White cloud mountain minnow's, Small danio's,Hillstream loaches.
These fish would appreciate moderate to strong flow,but as Byron has noted,,don't really appreciate soft water.(with exception of loaches)
You could add buffer to increase the hardness, but it may not be needed if you have access to other water besides the spring.?
I have lots of rivers,streams, and ponds around me if that is what you mean. I live in the woods in upstate ny.
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post #17 of 19 Old 02-11-2013, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by makasouleater View Post
I have lots of rivers,streams, and ponds around me if that is what you mean. I live in the woods in upstate ny.
I meant if your source water is soft acidic,then soft water species would fair better than those who thrive in hard alkaline water such as the livebearer's. (molly's,guppies,swordtail's,platy's)
Alway's easier to keep fishes that thrive in the water you can most easily re-produce (tapwater).
So if you have soft water,,, fishes that like hard water or vice versa are often NFL (not for long).

The most important medication in your fish medicine cabinet is.. Clean water.
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post #18 of 19 Old 02-11-2013, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
Say the fish waste resulted in an increase of 1ppm per day of nitrates (the most pervasive measurable toxin, but it could be anything and it certainly isn't the only thing) and you were flowing 1 gallon per day continuously that would be about equivalent to a 3.4% daily water change.

The nitrate buildup would reach an equilibrium level of 29ppm in 14 weeks. So either you want to up the changing or have a lower production of nitrate. Lots of live plants will do that as they allow most of the ammonia to bypass the whole nitrification process.

Increasing it to 10% reduces the maximum level to 10ppm and 4 weeks to equilibrium.

I considered doing something similar but the tank ended up being located where I couldn't easily feed and drain the water.

Two heaters would be best in this setup, although two in colder environments should be used anyway. I had a recent experience with one heater not providing enough heat for the ambient temperature in the room and a drop in water temp that resulted... other factors were involved but two heaters would have worked better. You are feeding cold water regularly.

Jeff.
I think I see where you are coming from.
Might google... Richard Taylor White paper "Water changing and Nitrate"
Was discussed on another forum ,don't know if paper is still available.
It did discuss continuous flow system's and amount' of exchange needed to achieve desired PPM reading's for nitrates.20ppm = approx 3.5 gal per day or thereabout's.
For me,,, it's easy to hook up pump with hose attached and draw 50% of water from the tank.
Takes about 20 min max,much shorter time than it would take for me to do the math required to achieve the same result's.
My tank's fluctuate with varying fish loads, and food's, so is easier to just change 50% once a week.
Has worked well for a few decade's.(am old and set in way's)
Continuous flow is appealing to me and plan's to once again raise some Juvenile Discus, where frequent feeding's and subsequent water changes are needed to maintain water quality while I am away at work,but I will prolly wait till spring when weather is nicer for shipping fish.

The most important medication in your fish medicine cabinet is.. Clean water.
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post #19 of 19 Old 02-11-2013, 11:59 AM
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On the issue of fish and water. We should first get the number for the GH of the well water. The pH was previously given as 6 which would tend to suggest soft to very soft, but not always.

One must remember that fish have evolved to suit very specific water, and as 1077 wisely said, selecting fish suited to your water is always going to be safer and easier. It means no fuss with additives to adjust this or that [which carry problems of their own, aside from cost] and any sort of continual flow will have to take this into account.

Second consideration is water flow, as from the filter. Not all fish can manage in this or that, so they need to be compatible on this aspect. And temperature; fish requiring cool temperatures have been mentioned with fish requiring warmer temperatures, and that can't work.

Tank space is another consideration; a 29g is more suited to sedate fish rather than active swimmers, and as these two categories don't get along anyway, this is an important aspect.

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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