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VerdantGrotto's Fresh-Water Habitat

This is a discussion on VerdantGrotto's Fresh-Water Habitat within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Originally Posted by beaslbob IME with "my" planted system any potable water is fine. I also do no water changes so the initial quality ...

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VerdantGrotto's Fresh-Water Habitat
Old 12-28-2012, 06:09 PM   #51
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob View Post
IME with "my" planted system any potable water is fine.

I also do no water changes so the initial quality of the water is not important.

my .02
No Water Changes? That's Crazy Talk
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Old 12-28-2012, 06:10 PM   #52
 
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Originally Posted by VerdantGrotto View Post
LOL

I understand that this is normal due to the conditions and setup of the tank (Sand, plants, etc...)

The only thing that has me concerned is the fact that there are Cory Cats and Angels destined for this tank. Shouldn't they have a PH setup in the low 7 ' s ? If not the high 6 ' s ?
I've kept angels.

And silver hatchetfish were reported as needing 6-7 ph vaules. But they lived for 3 years in my 8.4-8.8 tank.

To me it is the reason the pH is high. If only because the plants have consumed the carbon dioxide that would hardly be a bad thing for any fish. Not to mention returning oxygen.

I guess there are other reasons for pH. Perhaps that is what they are talking about.

my .02
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:08 PM   #53
 
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What many fish tolerate and what is best for them is not the same thing.

If you are maintaining soft water fish, which angelfish and others mentioned certainly are, and you are OK with buying the water, fine. What is the GH and KH/Alkalinity of the tap water? It may be good to mix this with RO, in some amount, as you do need some hard mineral for the plants if not the fish, and the GH will suggest possible levels.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:15 AM   #54
 
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No Water Changes? That's Crazy Talk

I'm just a wild and crazy guy
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:08 AM   #55
 
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What many fish tolerate and what is best for them is not the same thing.

If you are maintaining soft water fish, which angelfish and others mentioned certainly are, and you are OK with buying the water, fine. What is the GH and KH/Alkalinity of the tap water? It may be good to mix this with RO, in some amount, as you do need some hard mineral for the plants if not the fish, and the GH will suggest possible levels.
The Tap-Water is as follows :

GH = 30 to 60 ppm (mg/L)

KH = 240 ppm (mg/L) Max Range of Test Strip ***I think my water softener is out of salt!***

PH = 7.8

On another note, the RO water at Jewel has added minerals and the water at Dominicks does not. Is the minerals they add something that fish need?

After reading all the parameters what do you think I should do...

Use only Reverse Osmosis Water purchased from the store?

Use Treated Tap-water?

Or listen to Belzabub and don't do any water changes, don't treat the water and feed the fish used deck screws...

Last edited by VerdantGrotto; 12-29-2012 at 10:11 AM..
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:29 PM   #56
 
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Originally Posted by VerdantGrotto View Post
The Tap-Water is as follows :

GH = 30 to 60 ppm (mg/L)

KH = 240 ppm (mg/L) Max Range of Test Strip ***I think my water softener is out of salt!***

PH = 7.8

On another note, the RO water at Jewel has added minerals and the water at Dominicks does not. Is the minerals they add something that fish need?

After reading all the parameters what do you think I should do...

Use only Reverse Osmosis Water purchased from the store?

Use Treated Tap-water?

Or listen to Belzabub and don't do any water changes, don't treat the water and feed the fish used deck screws...
Everyone here knows my take on regular water changes, so I am not going to be drawn into that discussion.

To your water. The tap water GH is between 1.5 and 3 dGH, which is going to be too low for live plants to propser long term, as it means there is insufficient calcium. But before I go into that, what is this water softener thing? Are you running your tap water through a water softerner?

As for bottled water, it must be pure. True RO water will not have any minerals in it. Normal bottled drinking water is not safe in fish tanks as it frequently contains a number of substances.

Byron.
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Old 12-29-2012, 01:32 PM   #57
 
Yes, The Water Supply to my House is ran through a GE Water Softener. I do add Tetra FloraPride to the Tank when I do Water Changes.

The "Guaranteed Analysis" on the back reads :

Soluble Potash (K2O)...3.00%
Iron (FE).................0.19%
0.19% water soluble Iron (FE)

I'm Starting to think it might be wise to do a Tap-Water Change one week and then a RO water change the next.
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:47 PM   #58
 
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Yes, The Water Supply to my House is ran through a GE Water Softener. I do add Tetra FloraPride to the Tank when I do Water Changes.

The "Guaranteed Analysis" on the back reads :

Soluble Potash (K2O)...3.00%
Iron (FE).................0.19%
0.19% water soluble Iron (FE)

I'm Starting to think it might be wise to do a Tap-Water Change one week and then a RO water change the next.
Be careful. Water softeners that remove "hard" mineral salts by adding other salts such as sodium are actually worse for fish. I cited a warning on this from Dr. Neale Monks in my article on Total Solids [in the Freshwater Articles section] if you want to have a look at why. Is there any way to bypass the softener and use pre-softener tap water, and if so, any idea of the GH of the water pre-softener? This could perhaps be mixed with the RO and provide ideal water, or it may be fine alone.

The Tetra FloraPride contains as it says, only two nutrients. The other 15 are missing. Of course, some of these will occur in the water via water changes, some in fish foods, and some in organic breakdown in the substrate. We can discuss further but first I'd like to clear up the water issue as that is part of this.

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Old 12-29-2012, 05:57 PM   #59
 
The Water Softener was out of salt and therefore not reducing the hardness as well as it should have. I would assume that the Hardness wasn't/isn't much higher than it is now. Although, I did just refill the water softener so the tap-water Idea might be a No-Go. I've looked and short of having a plumber tap into the water supply and run a new pipe with a faucet it isn't possible. (Which the wife would probably divorce me if i tried to redo the plumbing on the house for the fish)

Are there additives or fertilizer that I could administer when I do water changes with RO water that would alleviate the issue of Minerals/Elements not being present?

Also, I was just at the Petstore and they have a fertilizer additive similar to the Tetra Flora stuff that has :

Total Nitrogen (N) 0.15%, 0.15% other water soluble Nitrogen
Boron (B) 0.0005%
Copper (Cu) 0.0005%, 0.0005% chelated copper
Iron (Fe) 0.26%, 0.26% chelated iron
Manganese (Mn) 0.05%, 0.05% chelated manganese
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0007%
Zinc (Zn) 0.003%, 0.003% chelated zin

Perhaps this is something that would replenish the nutrients not available in RO water?
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:14 PM   #60
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VerdantGrotto View Post
The Water Softener was out of salt and therefore not reducing the hardness as well as it should have. I would assume that the Hardness wasn't/isn't much higher than it is now. Although, I did just refill the water softener so the tap-water Idea might be a No-Go. I've looked and short of having a plumber tap into the water supply and run a new pipe with a faucet it isn't possible. (Which the wife would probably divorce me if i tried to redo the plumbing on the house for the fish)

Are there additives or fertilizer that I could administer when I do water changes with RO water that would alleviate the issue of Minerals/Elements not being present?

Also, I was just at the Petstore and they have a fertilizer additive similar to the Tetra Flora stuff that has :

Total Nitrogen (N) 0.15%, 0.15% other water soluble Nitrogen
Boron (B) 0.0005%
Copper (Cu) 0.0005%, 0.0005% chelated copper
Iron (Fe) 0.26%, 0.26% chelated iron
Manganese (Mn) 0.05%, 0.05% chelated manganese
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.0007%
Zinc (Zn) 0.003%, 0.003% chelated zin

Perhaps this is something that would replenish the nutrients not available in RO water?
We're mixing things up a bit, so perhaps I can realign them.

Back to the tap water, sometimes the outdoor taps are pre-softener, hence my question. If not, fine. RO water would certainly be preferable to softener water, from what I understand from those who know. So if you are OK using RO water--and remember, this is not the same as bottled drinking water--then I will now turn to what can be done.

First question is, the fish. If you have soft water fish, little GH is necessary, in fact it is mainly the plants in this situation. But if you intended hard water fish, it is different again. But from post #1 we are talking soft water fish--angelfish, corys, diamond tetra, otos--so I'll stick with this. Pure RO water is fine for these, but your plants won't last long. I have near-zero GH and zero KH in my tap water, and I use Seachem's Equilibrium to increase the GH with calcium, magnesium, potassium solely for the plants. I raise the GH to around 5 or 6 dGH.

To the other plant nutrients...what is the name of that product you saw? Aside from nitrogen which is a macro-nutrient, the others listed are micro-nutrients, what we term trace elements. There are still some nutrients missing, but the "hard" minerals need to be added with Equilibrium [no commercial liquid fertilizer contains sufficient hard minerals to supply these in RO water] so this would likely work together. I'd like to know the name though, as there may be something better for less.

Byron.
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