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Suitable fish to co exist with a Betta Plakat?

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Suitable fish to co exist with a Betta Plakat?
Old 11-26-2012, 12:10 PM   #11
 
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That posted chart is very unreliable. There are some serious errors. I hope no one takes the data as trustworthy.

As to the initial question, the answer should be no. No Betta are "community" fish and I can cite many ichthyologists and biologists in support of this view. Yes, as with most things in life, there may be exceptions; but the wise aquarist doesn't hope for an exception but relies on the norm.

I've no personal experience with this "Plakat" form, but I gather males are even more aggressive than the more common Siamese Fighting Fish variety B. splendens. Here is what Matt Ford, a trained biologist has to say about this fish's compatibility:
Not recommended for the standard community set-up for reasons already touched upon. Itís requirements and disposition mean itís best kept alone or with very peaceful species since much bigger or more vigorous fishes are likely to intimidate and outcompete it. Some small cyprinids and loaches that inhabit similar environments in nature are compatible, but the presence of any other fishes can be a distracting influence should a pair decide to spawn.

Avoid keeping it with anything similarly-shaped or with trailing finnage as a male may see these as rivals. Males from the aquarium trade seem more aggressive than any other Betta species, including others from the B. splendens group, and only a single individual can be kept per tank in most cases. A popular option is to keep a single male alongside several females.
Byron.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:09 AM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by Byron View Post
That posted chart is very unreliable. There are some serious errors. I hope no one takes the data as trustworthy.

As to the initial question, the answer should be no. No Betta are "community" fish and I can cite many ichthyologists and biologists in support of this view. Yes, as with most things in life, there may be exceptions; but the wise aquarist doesn't hope for an exception but relies on the norm.

I've no personal experience with this "Plakat" form, but I gather males are even more aggressive than the more common Siamese Fighting Fish variety B. splendens. Here is what Matt Ford, a trained biologist has to say about this fish's compatibility:
Not recommended for the standard community set-up for reasons already touched upon. Itís requirements and disposition mean itís best kept alone or with very peaceful species since much bigger or more vigorous fishes are likely to intimidate and outcompete it. Some small cyprinids and loaches that inhabit similar environments in nature are compatible, but the presence of any other fishes can be a distracting influence should a pair decide to spawn.

Avoid keeping it with anything similarly-shaped or with trailing finnage as a male may see these as rivals. Males from the aquarium trade seem more aggressive than any other Betta species, including others from the B. splendens group, and only a single individual can be kept per tank in most cases. A popular option is to keep a single male alongside several females.
Byron.
I got that chart from a reliable source via www.liveaquaria.com were they sell and or give data about Fresh/Brackish/ and saltwater aquiria also they are teamed up with DRS. Foster and Smith
And from that chart i was succesful at puting 6 bettas in one tank with 5 zebra danios 5 giant danios 2 red finned sharks 1 commen pleco and 6 guppies so what you are saying this is a accident or just pure luck?!!!
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:00 AM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by Cole mccallister View Post
I got that chart from a reliable source via www.liveaquaria.com were they sell and or give data about Fresh/Brackish/ and saltwater aquiria also they are teamed up with DRS. Foster and Smith
And from that chart i was succesful at puting 6 bettas in one tank with 5 zebra danios 5 giant danios 2 red finned sharks 1 commen pleco and 6 guppies so what you are saying this is a accident or just pure luck?!!!
I concur with Byron,the chart has some flaw's if it is the well being of the fish that are of primary concern.
Let us take the Betta's you mention ,,these fish prefer more tropical temp's than the Danio's who prefer much cooler water,with moderate to vigorous movement, and five female betta's could work where five males would in all likelihood result in much fighting ,possibly death for a few or all but one.
I will assume your tank is quite large, for the Giant Danio's grow quite large and appreciate as mentioned ,,cool water with lot's of swimming room.(55 gal or larger)
Another avoidable problem with the Danio's and slower fish such as the Betta's is that not much that swim's is faster at eating the lion's share of food's offered and this could (likely) result in betta's struggling at feeding time without over feeding the tank, or hassel of trying to see that all get enough food.
Guppies and Betta's ,both presenting long fin's,, or at least longer than many other's,, could result in both species nipping at each other which is favorite pastime of male guppies with other males or fishes as mentioned,,presenting longer fin's.(Betta's could easilt turn the table here)
Anyone is entitled to keep whatever fishes they choose in their tank's but these folk's should not become too dissapointed if and when fishes fail to thrive which in turn,,,causes many to flee from the hobby when they can't keep fishes healthy in the long term.
When fishes are kept within preferred range, and with suitable tankmates,,they often live much longer than they would in the wild where predation from other fishes,bird's,four legged creatures,is daily threat.
Those fishes kept outside preferred ranges,or with unsuitable tankmates,, are often NFL (not for long).

Last edited by 1077; 11-27-2012 at 09:02 AM..
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:37 AM   #14
 
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I concur with Byron,the chart has some flaw's if it is the well being of the fish that are of primary concern.
Let us take the Betta's you mention ,,these fish prefer more tropical temp's than the Danio's who prefer much cooler water,with moderate to vigorous movement, and five female betta's could work where five males would in all likelihood result in much fighting ,possibly death for a few or all but one.
I will assume your tank is quite large, for the Giant Danio's grow quite large and appreciate as mentioned ,,cool water with lot's of swimming room.(55 gal or larger)
Another avoidable problem with the Danio's and slower fish such as the Betta's is that not much that swim's is faster at eating the lion's share of food's offered and this could (likely) result in betta's struggling at feeding time without over feeding the tank, or hassel of trying to see that all get enough food.
Guppies and Betta's ,both presenting long fin's,, or at least longer than many other's,, could result in both species nipping at each other which is favorite pastime of male guppies with other males or fishes as mentioned,,presenting longer fin's.(Betta's could easilt turn the table here)
Anyone is entitled to keep whatever fishes they choose in their tank's but these folk's should not become too dissapointed if and when fishes fail to thrive which in turn,,,causes many to flee from the hobby when they can't keep fishes healthy in the long term.
When fishes are kept within preferred range, and with suitable tankmates,,they often live much longer than they would in the wild where predation from other fishes,bird's,four legged creatures,is daily threat.
Those fishes kept outside preferred ranges,or with unsuitable tankmates,, are often NFL (not for long).
There is only one flaw with what you say you don`t know what kind of guppies I mean these are feeders so they are not too flashy therefore the betta will pay no heed unless they get into personal space.

Last edited by Cole mccallister; 11-27-2012 at 10:52 AM.. Reason: speeling
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:54 AM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by 1077 View Post
I concur with Byron,the chart has some flaw's if it is the well being of the fish that are of primary concern.
Let us take the Betta's you mention ,,these fish prefer more tropical temp's than the Danio's who prefer much cooler water,with moderate to vigorous movement, and five female betta's could work where five males would in all likelihood result in much fighting ,possibly death for a few or all but one.
I will assume your tank is quite large, for the Giant Danio's grow quite large and appreciate as mentioned ,,cool water with lot's of swimming room.(55 gal or larger)
Another avoidable problem with the Danio's and slower fish such as the Betta's is that not much that swim's is faster at eating the lion's share of food's offered and this could (likely) result in betta's struggling at feeding time without over feeding the tank, or hassel of trying to see that all get enough food.
Guppies and Betta's ,both presenting long fin's,, or at least longer than many other's,, could result in both species nipping at each other which is favorite pastime of male guppies with other males or fishes as mentioned,,presenting longer fin's.(Betta's could easilt turn the table here)
Anyone is entitled to keep whatever fishes they choose in their tank's but these folk's should not become too dissapointed if and when fishes fail to thrive which in turn,,,causes many to flee from the hobby when they can't keep fishes healthy in the long term.
When fishes are kept within preferred range, and with suitable tankmates,,they often live much longer than they would in the wild where predation from other fishes,bird's,four legged creatures,is daily threat.
Those fishes kept outside preferred ranges,or with unsuitable tankmates,, are often NFL (not for long).
Also a side note when did this chat become about danio behavior rather than suitble tank mates for betta plakats
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:20 AM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by Cole mccallister View Post
Also a side note when did this chat become about danio behavior rather than suitble tank mates for betta plakats
I mentioned the Danio's after you told of keeping them as well as guppies with five betta's, and asked the question of whether or not you had just been lucky.(so far it seem's you have or possibly not?)
Lot's of folk's who care for Betta's attempt to attach human qualities to these fish and offer up personalities, as being a factor on whether or not Betta's make good community fish.
In reality,,,instinct/evolution are the driving factor's and Betta's that actually perform well in community setting's that most hobbyist's strive for is in fact a rarity,,has nothing to do with the personality of the fish.
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:27 AM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by Cole mccallister View Post
There is only one flaw with what you say you don`t know what kind of guppies I mean these are feeders so they are not too flashy therefore the betta will pay no heed unless they get into personal space.
Oh, I see.
Most folk's that keep feeder guppies, do so for some perverse pleasure they derive from offering them as feeder's when in fact,, they are poor diet from nutritional standpoint compared to prepared food's on market today, and store bought feeder's often harbor all manner of possible parasites,bacterial,viral,pathogen's.
If one is raising their own feeder fish, and feeding them quality food's ,,they might make a nice occasional snack for larger predatory fish or to stimulate the larger fish, but often the larger fish will refuse more nutritonal prepared food's once feeder's make the menu, so offering them on regular basis is at hobbyist's risk.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:01 PM   #18
 
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Oh, I see.
Most folk's that keep feeder guppies, do so for some perverse pleasure they derive from offering them as feeder's when in fact,, they are poor diet from nutritional standpoint compared to prepared food's on market today, and store bought feeder's often harbor all manner of possible parasites,bacterial,viral,pathogen's.
If one is raising their own feeder fish, and feeding them quality food's ,,they might make a nice occasional snack for larger predatory fish or to stimulate the larger fish, but often the larger fish will refuse more nutritonal prepared food's once feeder's make the menu, so offering them on regular basis is at hobbyist's risk.
That is not what I meant feeders are not as flashy as fancys and have strait lined tails rather than things bettas coul mistake for rivalry usally betta`s are complely oblivous two them, in my case I started puting gift feeders in betta bowl with the male scine I needed some place to put them and not much would matter if they died since I can buy some for 36.cents per fish at the local pet store but things did not go like I thougt they would since the male actully protected them like chincilid would their fry unless they would go into his rainbow castle rock then he would just chase them out until they learned to swim on the outside of the castle then back to parental behavior until put into tank with the other fish after making a decision on that chart yes the chart is flawed but it meant what can go with what in general not based on enviroment but the indivduals they have paired but based on the fish`s natures and agression habbits that they had so results could vary so in untested zones and facters such as space and or capacity perimiters and enviroments since they are not put in to cosideration therefore only choose peaceful species that are nowhere near shape or form of bettas that are 100% possitive to the chart do not choose caution list nor non-compatible and then narrow it down to facts about the remander of fish left from the research then if facts and behavior about them will be 99.99% type match for them but with the feeder guppies they are not food but infact tankmates in my case and since they lack super bright colors and do not have exotic tails that can be mistaken for other male betta`s as rivals.

Last edited by Cole mccallister; 11-27-2012 at 12:07 PM..
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:12 PM   #19
 
man this would be easier if betta`s were not territorial nor so agressive then there populairity would skyrocket even higher.
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Old 11-27-2012, 12:23 PM   #20
 
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Originally Posted by Cole mccallister View Post
That is not what I meant feeders are not as flashy as fancys and have strait lined tails rather than things bettas coul mistake for rivalry usally betta`s are complely oblivous two them, in my case I started puting gift feeders in betta bowl with the male scine I needed some place to put them and not much would matter if they died since I can buy some for 36.cents per fish at the local pet store but things did not go like I thougt they would since the male actully protected them like chincilid would their fry unless they would go into his rainbow castle rock then he would just chase them out until they learned to swim on the outside of the castle then back to parental behavior until put into tank with the other fish after making a decision on that chart yes the chart is flawed but it meant what can go with what in general not based on enviroment but the indivduals they have paired but based on the fish`s natures and agression habbits that they had so results could vary so in untested zones and facters such as space and or capacity perimiters and enviroments since they are not put in to cosideration therefore only choose peaceful species that are nowhere near shape or form of bettas that are 100% possitive to the chart do not choose caution list nor non-compatible and then narrow it down to facts about the remander of fish left from the research then if facts and behavior about them will be 99.99% type match for them but with the feeder guppies they are not food but infact tankmates in my case and since they lack super bright colors and do not have exotic tails that can be mistaken for other male betta`s as rivals.

I see,
Just be careful when buying store bought feeder guppies for reason's already mentioned.(often sickly)
I am just offering thing's for other's who may read through this thread at some later date ,some thing's to consider.
Is in my view much to consider when attempting to create community tank where fishes all get along,share same water chemistry need's,and interact peaceably, as opposed to tank's where fishes are struggling to adapt to differing water chemistry need's,fleeing from more aggressive fishes,struggling with too warm of temperaturees ,too cool,over stocking,overfeeding.poor maint,etc.
those that persevere and perform research, regular maint,are often rewarded.
Other's are simply fish collector's in my view, and do not mind replacing/medicating dead,sick fishes, but they soon tire of the effort and the hobby loses another possible home for some deserving fishes.
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