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Stocking suggestions for 180G

This is a discussion on Stocking suggestions for 180G within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> dont see how too much light would cause the crypt to stop growing.all the other plants are growing fine. well it is what it ...

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Stocking suggestions for 180G
Old 01-10-2010, 01:43 PM   #21
 
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dont see how too much light would cause the crypt to stop growing.all the other plants are growing fine. well it is what it is, cant fit 4' tubes in the canopy. really dont have any other options.
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Old 01-10-2010, 03:15 PM   #22
 
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Crypt are plants that like it more on the shady side of things (as some would refer to as "low light"). In high end light situations they don't grow properly even can get as worst as the plants literally melting from the lights.
I'm not suggesting to rebuilt or change anything others then a lower wattage there, just an exchange of bulbs for a more idea plant set up, just trying to be helpful here
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Old 01-10-2010, 05:29 PM   #23
 
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Reading this thread, I agree with Angel on the light. I also see a deficiency in nutrients especially with the swords, it is quite obvious in the photo of the large Echinodorus bleheri. A good comprehensive (complete) liquid fertilizer should help, or substrate fertilizer (like Nutrafin's Plant-Gro sticks or Flourish tablets) just next to the larger sword roots; Echinodorus are very heavy feeders, and being bog plants in nature they have extensive root systems.

When you say you used to use the Flourish line but it made no difference, exactly what were you using? Nutrients are carbon (CO2 from the fish and biological processes), nitrogen (as ammonium from ammonia produced by the fish and natural processes) and 15 minerals. Some of the latter may be in your tap water, some will occur in fish foods; it is risky dosing with ad hoc ferts because when some are in excess certain plants will develop a deficiency in others, and adding more of this or that only worsens it. I can explain more when I have a better understanding of your regime.

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Old 01-10-2010, 07:30 PM   #24
 
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i was using flourish, excel, iron, nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus once a week.

the problem is they dont make lower wattage compact flourescent. i can get different color temps but that is it.
as i said that tank is going to be disassembled, so when i get the 180 set up and the plants in ill worry about the lighting and dosing.

i appreciate the advice.

boy did this thread go off topic somewhere?

anyhow what kind of lighting would be recommended for my 75g and my 180g?
the 75g i was thinking of 3 or 4 4' T8 flourescent.
the 180 being 6' long i have no clue what i am going to do. any ideas?
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Old 01-10-2010, 07:47 PM   #25
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceprizm View Post
i was using flourish, excel, iron, nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus once a week.

the problem is they dont make lower wattage compact flourescent. i can get different color temps but that is it.
as i said that tank is going to be disassembled, so when i get the 180 set up and the plants in ill worry about the lighting and dosing.

i appreciate the advice.

boy did this thread go off topic somewhere?

anyhow what kind of lighting would be recommended for my 75g and my 180g?
the 75g i was thinking of 3 or 4 4' T8 flourescent.
the 180 being 6' long i have no clue what i am going to do. any ideas?
On the ferts, I would suggest Flourish Comprehensive on its own once or twice a week, give it 3-4 weeks, then assess. For years this has worked for me. I have no CO2 diffusion, and less than 1 watt full spectrum per gallon. Photos under my Aquariums show the results.

And that leads into your light question. Three or four T8's is a lot of light. I have two 48-inch T8 tubes over my 70g (over my 90g and 115g too actually), which is more than enough light for the majority of plants; the photos are proof positive. Rather than repeat the reason this works, you might have a look at my article in the stickies at the top of the "Aquarium Plants" section of this forum, covering the establishement of a natural planted tank, Part Four covers lighting. I'd be happy to follow-up.

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Old 01-10-2010, 10:35 PM   #26
 
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i will read your articles once i get some free time.
i have never seen flourish comprehensive, i cant find it on drs. foster either. do you have a link for it?
would that be used instead of root tabs?

ok 2 48" on the 75g is easy enough to do.
using that theory maybe 4 36" for the 180g? 2 on each side? what do you think?

now that i think about it i noticed that the hornwort i planted in the back of my 75g has been doing very poorly. while the hornwort planted in the middle or front has been growing excellent. I cant figure out why. i do notice that the black painted back makes the tank look very dark. I have 2 65W compact flourescent and 1 48" T8 that is as far back as it can go.
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Old 01-11-2010, 11:26 AM   #27
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceprizm View Post
i will read your articles once i get some free time.
i have never seen flourish comprehensive, i cant find it on drs. foster either. do you have a link for it?
would that be used instead of root tabs?

ok 2 48" on the 75g is easy enough to do.
using that theory maybe 4 36" for the 180g? 2 on each side? what do you think?

now that i think about it i noticed that the hornwort i planted in the back of my 75g has been doing very poorly. while the hornwort planted in the middle or front has been growing excellent. I cant figure out why. i do notice that the black painted back makes the tank look very dark. I have 2 65W compact flourescent and 1 48" T8 that is as far back as it can go.
Liquid fertilizer and substrate (root tabs & sticks) fertilizer are two very different things. Substrate fertilizers only feed substrate rooted plants (swords, crypts, vallisneria, aponegeton...) and are useless to floating plants, plants that root on rock and wood (Java Fern, Moss, Anubias) and marginally useful to stem plants as these take nutrients from the water via roots along the stems and leaves. Liquid fertilizer will benefit all plants, since nutrients come from the water and are taken up by the roots, and in substrate rooted plants the water passes through the substrate (if it is healthy) and thus gets to the roots. Swords and crypts are heavy feeders, so direct substrate ferts help these, but otherwise liquid works fine. Which is one reason I never bother with enriched substrates, it has limited practical value for the work and fuss.

Seachem makes several plant products as you know. One of them is called "Flourish Comprehensive Supplement for the Planted Aquarium" and this is a basic comprehensive fert, although designed to be used with some of their other products. I used this one alone for more than a year with very good results. Fertilizers are somewhat Dependant upon your tap water which may have some minerals in it, and some minerals occur in fish foods. Another good comprehensive fert is Kent Freshwater Supplement. I used this for more than 12 years.

Re the 180g, as you are thinking along the lines of T8 light I would aim for 1 watt per gallon, and have the tubes distributed so that the entire length of the tank is covered. Before doing this, I would check to see what lengths the tubes come in. For example, you can buy very inexpensive full spectrum tubes made by Phillips and Sylvania and others from hardware stores like Home Depot, but I'm not sure if they come in various sizes. I have seen them in 48-inch tubes, but not smaller in my local HD. As 48-inch is a very common and standard length, it might be advisable to use this and be assured of having an open filed on types of tubes.

Last on the Hornwort, it may be the light. Daylight is probably entering the tank from the front, and supplementing the light requirement of hornwort. I certainly would not change the background; black or a dark background does wonders for the plant and fish colours, and there is the issue of light effect on the fish that I've written of elsewhere.

Byron.
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Old 01-11-2010, 06:19 PM   #28
 
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i looked on seachems website and couldnt find the supplement you reccomend, maybe they stopped making it?

ok 180 lighting: 5 T8s=160W or 6 T8s=192W the which would i be better off with? i was thinking the 6 bulb setup. 3 bulbs on each side overlapping in the middle. i dont see any other way of setting it up. any ideas?

hornwort: there is absolutely no daylight entering the tank. i can say there is no daylight in my entire house. i keep it like a cave. the plants dying were the bunches i bought. the clippings i took from those bunches are growing well. maybe i clipped the bunches too much. at one point they were past the top of the tank, i cut them to half that lenght.

oh and i looked for the bulbs you reccomend in your sticky, i found the 6500k but that was the highest they had. No 7500k....this was in Walmart, i will have to try home depot.

Last edited by iceprizm; 01-11-2010 at 06:24 PM..
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Old 01-11-2010, 07:05 PM   #29
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceprizm View Post
i looked on seachems website and couldnt find the supplement you reccomend, maybe they stopped making it?

ok 180 lighting: 5 T8s=160W or 6 T8s=192W the which would i be better off with? i was thinking the 6 bulb setup. 3 bulbs on each side overlapping in the middle. i dont see any other way of setting it up. any ideas?

hornwort: there is absolutely no daylight entering the tank. i can say there is no daylight in my entire house. i keep it like a cave. the plants dying were the bunches i bought. the clippings i took from those bunches are growing well. maybe i clipped the bunches too much. at one point they were past the top of the tank, i cut them to half that lenght.

oh and i looked for the bulbs you reccomend in your sticky, i found the 6500k but that was the highest they had. No 7500k....this was in Walmart, i will have to try home depot.
The Flourish Comprehensive is the first item they list, here's the link to the details page; they only call it "Flourish" but on the bottle it has the entire name.
Seachem. Flourish
As you'll note there, potassium and phosphorus are not included, they want you to buy those individually. I never have, and until now have had no issues.

On the light, were it me I would go with 4 48-inch 40w tubes. I know this is short of the 1 wpg but on my 115g I have two 40w 48-inch T8 tubes and it is plenty. This tank is five feet in length, and the tubes are parallel, so not end to end. Assuming your 180 is six feet length, I would have one rear tube from the left side, the next parallet tube start from the right side, then from the left, then the right again so they are staggered.

The 7500K was a number for blue, I don't know if there is a tube at that kelvin, I don't have any. Mine are all around 6500 or 6700K. If you are going with the hardware store tubes, something like Phillips or Sylvania daylight is full spectrum, and the enhanced or ultra daylight is cooler. Sometimes the K numbers are a bit misleading too. I know of these tubes because I used them for 12 years, and still use the "blue" ones which are Phillips "Daylight Deluxe" at I think 6500K or thereabouts--but they are "cooler" than the regular daylight.

Hornwort--when you trim off the tops the bottom parts should be removed. They never grow nice again. Most stem plants should regularly be trimmed by pulling them up, cutting off the top as much as you want, plant the tops and toss out the lower bits. I do this with my Pennywort every second week or it would be across the surface at at that point the lower leaves disintegrate. As stem plants grow, they grow toward the light source, so the lower leaves will fall off eventually, some plant species more than others.

B.
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Old 01-11-2010, 08:56 PM   #30
 
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oh ok the flourish i have. i thought it was something else.

like this:
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i didnt know 48" T8 came in 40W
i was just going by your sticky....said to use 1 6500K and 1 7500K. Do you use all daylight deluxe or do you mix with another kind?

hornwort--that explains everything, i will remember that the next time i trim. Thanks
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