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Starting a 29g and clueless.

3K views 24 replies 7 participants last post by  thekoimaiden 
#1 ·
Hello Everyone!
I'd like to start a predatory tank. Something that I could toss a guppy or two in and watch them chase it. I would also like to Aquascape it with real plants and preferable sand though i'm not sure if sand would be a better choice over gravel. I just really want something where it will be truely amazing! Colorful fish that will eat others lol, real plants, and hopefully not too much maintenance (apart from water changes). As of right now I have a 29g tank and would like to have an idea on what fish to put in before i begin aquascaping/cycling the tank. I also have a ten gallon tank cycling right now for some guppies that i'll breed for food. Any ideas on what i could throw into the tank? Possibly any really cool fish that have a "act" so to say that would beat watching a predator chase and feed? Oh also fairly easy breeding for the future would be a plus :D. So far that's all I can think of right now.

Thanks!
 
#2 · (Edited)
Not alot tbh that you can keep thats predatory in a 29 gallon tank. certainly not your name sake the piranha! need a group and a massive tank!

Few options are;

Dwarf puffer tank - small but aggressive little buggers! They'll have a pop at anything. More likely to kill the fish though than eat it- as fish are fatty and not good for their diet, so then you have rotting issues and DP's demand perfect water! Will eat lots of live bloodworm/daphnia etc, things like that.

Red wolf fish - THINK you could keep one of these in a tank that size- depends on dimensions, 36 12 12 is minimum though 55 gallon 4 ft would be better.

Leaf fish - these would chow down on an guppy but need a good established tank, lots of planmts, leaves etc and basically cover.

MOST predatory fish btw will be boring as anything 90% of the time except when they are eating for you....and thats only if they do it on YOUR timeframe which is unlikely probably.

All in all IMO if you really want proper predatory fish you really need a bigger tank to house them in, your looking at 48inch minimum and tbh the bigger tank, the ''better'' the fish you'll get for your purposes.

I didnt look into this too much when i was thinking about a predatory tank a while back - i went community, just weighing up all options, but these were a few that came up, and now im setting up a small DP species tank as i like these as though they dont eat guppys like you want, they are gorgeous and intelligent fish.
 
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#20 ·
Dwarf puffer tank - small but aggressive little buggers! They'll have a pop at anything.

MOST predatory fish btw will be boring as anything 90% of the time except when they are eating for you....and thats only if they do it on YOUR timeframe which is unlikely probably.
Boring or exciting is a matter of personal perception. I find the predatory fish I keep to be anything but boring. The sinuous grace of a rope-fish, the curious interactions amongst each other, and the very very cute way in which they sleep, and their behavior when they wake up are all very interesting to watch.

If you ever watch a nearly full grown Ornate Bichir rise up out of the bottom to breach, and then slowly cruise the water...that is something that is quite breathtaking. It's a bit like a dragon coming away and moving right before your eyes. To see the interaction once she notices you, to follow you, and watch you is also quite neat. But of course the for more interesting "Predators" take a lot of space which unfortunately OP does not have.
 
#3 ·
I was looking into some small cichlids but wasn't sure about compatability among other cichlids or with other fish for that matter. Some have awesome colorations along with unique shapes and sizes. Any cool non-predatory fish to consider? I would like something entertaining. Maybe a chase or odd behaviors. What combination would be most rewarding? Would like multiple species :D. Lol alot to ask for such little to work with :-(.

Thanks!
 
#5 · (Edited)
Cichlids aren't my cup of tea now/maybe ever so my knowledge on them is fairly, well, short of much constructive as i haven't bothered to put the time into the research.
I know convicts are rated as an aggressive fish - though i dont know about diet.
THINK you could do some small/dwarf cichlids in the tank you have but numbers might be fairly limited.

the dwarf puffer is a cool one for odd behaviour - it learns to recognise its owner - inspects every part of its tank constantly (so needs a well planted interesting tank to keep it happy) and when your in front of the tank, will follow you mercilessly, often ''begging'' for food. These dont fit your multiple species idea though as need to be a DP only tank. but they would fit in the lil tank.

People will offer other suggestion on fish with cool behavioural patterns etc, but as im setting one of these tanks up ATM, im all tuned into them :)

OK....i'm going to cheat now, as i wrote it out yesterday and this is the third time its come up so dont want to repeat- this is a MAJOR point for you to consider though....

What we really need to know in order to properly suggest the correct fish for your community is your water conditions. Fish can't really just go in any tap/well water etc and everybody s water is different. Levels of Kh, carbonate harness, and Gh, general hardness of your water, along with the ph, are very important in determining what fish you can have.

The best thing for determining this is to, if your haven't already, is to ring/google your local water supplier to find out or most display these levels on websites etc.
You could also buy the test kits to determine these yourself.

Once you know these you can determine whether you have soft or hard water etc and therefore determine the fish that are best suited to your water. Trying to do it without knowing these levels can often lead to long term problems with your fish, and can make them quite unhealthy.

Read more: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...0-gallon-tank-what-fish-125008/#ixzz2HTsWyMbI
 
#4 ·
Ok, now i've eaten, i'll get to he rest of the post.
I have a gravel and a sand tank - sand since yesterday! I LOVE the sand, looks gorgeous and a lot of people says its better for planting. some will obviously disagree, i havent formed an opinion yet! Its also cleaner as the detritus cant fall through the gravel due to its compact nature BUT because of this, you rely on plants/ornamnets and filter media much more for the de-nitrifying process.

HAVE you read up on cycling a tank? you REALLY need to.
Though with live plants, this process is cut Much shorter/immediate depending on the livestock you add.

read this for a start;

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/...inners-guide-freshwater-aquarium-cycle-38617/

now you said you want colourful fish that will eat other fish. you cant really have both. Most people go down the route of a community tank becasue they are great to scape and you can add some gorgeous fish in. predators, not so much IMO.

The 10 gallon that you spoke of, you could do the dwarf puffer tank i mentioned earlier for a ''predatory'' tank - though not quite in the terms you mentioned, but still.... and could have 1/2 in there........THOUGH i'd wait to do this until you are a bit more knowledgeable about the whiol fish keeping malarkey as they are quite demanding fish.

Until then you could use it as a quarantine tank for your bigger community tank IF you went this way.

What i'd really suggest more than anything though- IS SLOW DOWN. Start reading about the whole deal and asking questions, l'll gladly answer what i can all day for you, and so will others. The best key here is knowledge. Start looking up other people 29 gallon tank, and getting ideas, and then forming your own from them.
Keeping fish isnt just a buy and throw in, theres much more too it, and with a 29 gallon one of the things you'll encounter is fish need big spaces. You cant throw a small fish that will grow to 40 inches into a tank just because its only 3 inches now, it causes long term problems and mis-growth, etc etc, all things you'll hopefully read about.

yeah, im blabbering, and still hungry, so read a lil and ask some more Q's if you have them :p

And welcome to TFK :)
 
#6 ·
Nilet is very right when he says we need to know how soft or hard your water is. It will make a difference in what we fish we suggest.

That being said, most fish that can comfortably fit in a 29 gal are small shoaling fish. No strange behaviours or predatory natures. But that doesn't have to make them boring. Tetra (which are closely related to pirahna) are some of the most beautiful fish IMO. Look at some macro photos of their mouths and you'll see that they have a nice set of teeth. They like to use those teeth to hunt down shrimps and daphnia.

But if you are looking for something that is pretty easy to breed on down the line, you should look at the small gourami like honey gourami and dwarf gourami. The male build bubble nests and guard the eggs.
 
#7 ·
Agree with what everyone else has had, we need to know your exact water parameters before we can offer stocking suggestions.

In terms of keeping a predatory fish, there is NOTHING which fits the bill for a small tank like that, it is possible to keep a convict cichlid with some small dither fish, the convict though may eat them or kill them. If you want to get into cichlids then you need to be looking at tanks 55g and above, most are active fish requiring the swimming space of a 4ft or longer tank.

Convicts are a great beginner fish as they can literally adapt to almost all water conditions with the exception of very soft and at the other end very hard, anything in between they will be fine.

Keeping a pair of mated convicts is very rewarding as their breeding behavior is extraordinary.

Tank though as mentioned is too small for anything except small shell dweller cichlids but these are far from predatory at all. Sorry but no predatory fish for this tank.
 
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#8 ·
Another thing I would like to add though - have you ever seen a tetra/rasbora feeding frenzy? They go crazy shredding their flakes and hunting down tubifex worms. It's a lot of fun to watch, and those small fish can be kept comfortably in your tank.

BUT BUT BUT. This all depends on your water, like everyone has said.
 
#9 ·
Sorry I haven't posted back in awhile.... busy with school and work. Thank you everyone for your postings. Still a bit new to all this. Had a tank when I was about 13 and didn't really bother too much with it and my mom let all the fish die :/ we had tiger barbs and some other cool fish in there. As of right now I have a 10g with a Black Molly and Silver Molly. A Black Kulhi Loach and a few Ghost Shrimp. Got the loach because he looked cool but unfortunatly I rarely see him as he burrows into the gravel :/. Apart from those tanks I have a 2.5g a 5g and a 29g. The 29g has nothing right now infact still has stickers from store on it. the others have equipment but arent in use. I was thinking of sperating the fish into the other 2 (shrimps in the 2.5, others in 5) and using the 10 as a small breeder for guppys and possibly getting a couple small cichlids no bigger than 6in. and some other small compatable fish for the 29g (I was told good rule of thumb is 1in of fish per gallon). I really like some of the aquascapes i've seen using real plants but not sure how to go about that or even what plants to use. I want it to look as natural as possible but be somewhat self sustaining by the "nature" controlling the nitrates and nitrites and all that good stuff. Also thought about a pleco but not sure their compatability with Convicts. I've read on other sites where people were putting like 6-8 cichlids about 4in each in a 29 but that seems a little crowded to me. I wouldn't mind Convict Cichlids and maybe a couple small shoals of fish or would that be a snack for them? The Convicts would be mainly the center piece of the tank. If that ultimatly wouldn't work then what are a few nice stock lists of some fish that would work? Anything I can feed guppies to or possible my mollies after they breed? Also any ideas where I can find some good aquascaping tips and advice and information about the different plants? Come thursday i'll be purchasing the filter for my 29g and heater to start the fishless cycle, should I get an air pump or will some plants provide enough oxygen?

Thanks in advance!
 
#10 ·
Bad news first... The 10 gallon is to small for the mollies. The 5 gallon would be WAY too small for them. The 29 gallon would actually be a better tank.

The Kuhli hides, because well they do that. It's always recommended to keep them in a group so they are more comfortable and will show themselves. They are very sociable.

A couple cichlids of the type you're looking for just won't work in that small of a tank.

We can't give you any stocking ideas until we find out about your water. Sorry.

The inch per gallon rule is a pretty bad one. There are so many other factors that go into stocking. Whether a species shoals. Whether it is aggressive. How active they are. The inch rule also doesn't take into account mass. 12 one inch fish will not produce anywhere near the same amount of waste as a single 12 inch fish.

You're always going to have to do water changes to get rid of nitrates yourself. You can't just rely on plants to do that for you.

Good news:
Once we find out your parameters people on here can help you with how much to stock.

Plants can be done fairly easily for low light plants. You'd need a new bulb (I'm not sure what brands are good, someone can help with that). You can fertilize with Seachem Flourish once a week. Good plants would be crytpocorynes, anubias, mosses, Java fern, floaters like water sprite, Amazon frogbit, dwarf water lettuce. that's a really quick list. Under the tropical fish profile button up top you can find info about all of these. Or click on the name if it is shaded.

If you get enough plants you can skip over the entire fishless cycle if you stock slowly.
 
#11 ·
Well for now I'm not sure the water parameters. I've actually been researching since my last post and found a pair of kribs would be right up my alley. They are small 3-4 in. and are easy to care for from what i've read. Was thinking of those 2 be the center piece so to say and maybe 5 or so Tiger Barbs. Also need some sort of "cleaner" fish like pleco though i read that the kribs are not compatable with them :/ not sure what to do about that. Also the kribs will eat guppies! In fact from almost everything I read they love them and are somewhat a delicacy. That seems like an adequatly stocked tank. I do realize water changes are inevitable and I don't mind. Just want something that will take care of the algae on the glass and possible the "debris" in the substrate. Not sure if I want sand or gravel. Any thoughts on the two? I have a friend who has a 36g bow front with some room for my mollies so he will take them along with the loach if necessary. Then i'll just feed the shrimp to the Kribs. Only problem atm is I can't find Kribs near me atleast from the few stores i've looked at. But their water requirements are fairly easy to maintain as far as I see. Also what would be a good natural cave for them to breed in? Driftwood or rocks possibly? I need to pick up some testing supplies when I get everything for the 29g. Should I test it after i've cycled for a day or two or right after I get it set up?

Thanks!
 
#13 ·
Funny you should say that I just came back from there! They have the Kribensis too! Almost any fish i've seen online and some. Their staff are awesome too. Got alot of pointers on aquascaping my tank. So i've pretty much decided that i'll get a pair of Kribs hopefully they pair up. And they have 6 for $11 on Tiger Barbs so i'll get those guys and now I just need to find the "clean up crew". I was looking at filters and found a decent Aquaclear filter that fits up to 50g tanks. Has the triple stage filtration. Would that be sufficient or does anyone have a better one I should look at? Also figured for my tank a 150w heater would be plenty. As for the air pump i'm not sure yet if I should get one. Kinda hoping that the plants would provide enough oxygen for my tank. Also should I get a hood or just the light? Sorry for all the questions lol I just don't want to screw anything up that will cost me money or my fishies lives.

Thanks!
 
#14 ·
I'd go for if i were you;

6 x Tiger barbs
2 x Kribensis
1 x Bristlenose pleco

You need a plec that will stay nice and small for your tank, around 5/6 inches and the BN fits this nicely. It will also keep the tank clean. You will need to throw some driftwood in for it though, but this will only help with your aquascape :) HOWEVER, I cant say getting a pleco for the sole purpose of cleaning your tank is a good idea. Get the fish because you love it, not for a job. Having a BN/any pleco will also not change at all your cleaning/partial water change schedule btw, whilst it would help with the algae plecos are constantly graving and therefore constantly pooping....... so IMO its 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other...

God knows there has been a lot of discussion on this one lately that i've seen - sand/gravel.
I now have both. Go for sand. Your worried about clean - well with gravel it sinks through, gets messy and needs a good hoovering every so often to keep it clean. With sand it sits on top of and is much easier to just suck off rather than having to 'dig in.' Sand is a lot more work putting it in - needs rigorous cleaning - but well worth it long term i'd say. Especially with you wanting to feed guppys - you dont want rotting fish sinking into your gravel. A BN pleco will also probably prefer the sand.

Tiger barbs are an excellent jumper and so id say get a hood!

The 150w will be fine for a heater.

So will the 50 gallon filter.

Kribs breed in caves so if you want this, well, you'd need some caves. haha.

I've just back-read a lil more too and stil no water params? Get them - because if you plan your tank and it doesnt suit your water at all, thats going to suck for you and your fish!
 
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#15 ·
The Aquaclear filters are great filters. I've used them on my tanks for years. The one rated for 50 gal tanks sounds like a good fit for your tank. If you found a good deal, take it.

As for the air pump, I don't think you need one. With the plants and the filter there will be more than enough oxygen in your tank. Save yourself the few bucks and forgo it.

You'll want both a hood and the light. The hood and light kits are usually just a few more dollars than just the light, and IME it's worth it to have a hood. It slows evaporation and prevents fish from landing on the floor if they jump. But you will need a different bulb. The ones that come with hoods aren't good for plants. You want a 6500k daylight bulb; good brands to look for are Hagen Glo-life and Zoo Med Ultrasun. On your 29 gal this will enable you to grow low-light plants like anubias, java fern, java moss, and swords. I know because I have a 29 gal tank just like yours but with tetra and loaches, and these plants thrive in that tank.

My clean up crews in my tanks are actually snails and shrimp. Malaysian trumpet snails will burrow into the sand during the day and clean the walls at night. I have red cherry shrimp to clean the algae, but something larger and better able to fend for itself like ghost shrimp might be a better choice in your tank. But if you are into plecos, then feel free to get one. Interesting fact is that they will also easily breed in aquariums.

Lol! The sand v gravel debate! I'm on the sand side even though I have both. Just the look of sand is so much better. It is a pain to put in, but the long-run benefits are worth it.
 
#16 ·
Glad to hear sand lol. I like the look of it more and thought it would be easier to keep clean. As for not having to do water changes and what not, I don't mind. I just wanted something to help keep algae away. As for shrimp I think they will end up snacks :/ I might give it a try though. Do the malaysian trumpet snails reproduce quickly or will it be something I can control? So how should I test my water though? Test after I have done the fishless cycle or what? And with what? Thank you for your patience and help everyone!!!
 
#17 ·
You can buy the kit yourself to test but generally speaking its a bit of a waste of money as you'll probably never use it again.
It's likely that your water supplier will have the information you need on their website, or if not you should be able to get the figures with a quick phone call as by rights it's information you are entitled too, there's no hush hush about it etc.
Failing them two options your LFS might test it for free for you- if they do never accept words like good, soft, or hard. Peoples opinions on these vary wildly so you want Exact figures!

Happy hunting :)
 
#18 ·
The water parameters we keep asking about are your tap water pH and hardness. You can find these on your local water treatment website. There is a test kit for them, but it's a one time use thing unless you plan to harden or soften your water. The other thing you will need to test (and you will need a test kit for this) is ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. The test kit that most of us swear by is the API freshwater master kit. It will also come with a pH test.

Snails aren't a big problem if you don't let them be. They overpopulate the tank when you over feed. They will reproduce but not at a fast rate. Every couple of months I might remove a handful of these snails from my tanks, but I've never had on overpopulation problem.
 
#19 ·
Is it safe to use tap water in my fish tank?
Water for aquariums should be dechlorinated. The Portland Water Bureau uses chlorine and ammonia to disinfect Portland's water in a process called chloramination. Disinfection is important so humans don't get waterborne diseases. Chloramines can be lethal to fish, however, so it's important to adequately dechlorinate water before it's added to an aquarium.

If you have copper plumbing, be sure to run the water to flush out water that has been sitting in contact with the piping. Copper can be toxic to fish. You can reduce copper in your water if you run the water for several minutes to flush your pipes.

So far i've found this i'm going to look for the pH and Hardness.

Just called the water quality line and because it's sunday their closed :/ but did get ahold of someone that said the pH runs about 8. I'll probably just go ahead and head over to my LFS and get the testing done there to find out what everything is since the guy didn't seem like he was 100% positive of his answer. I'll let you guys know when I find out. Does anyone know if this forum has an iPhone app?
 
#22 ·
Yes tap water is safe to use once you use dechlorinator. Since your tap has ammonia in it, look for a product like Seachem's Prime that detoxifies ammonia as well as chlorine.

I don't think we have an iPhone app, but I know a lot of people access the regular website on their smartphones and navigate around just fine.
 
#21 ·
Yeah it wssnt meant so much that they are boring fish in their entirety, just that they aren't going to spend all day drinking in the saloon, all evening whoring and all night ripping guppys apart :)
 
#24 ·
You should be able to find a water syphon pretty cheap (sorry been a while since I bought mine). That will let you clean the substrate as you change water. You could also get a water python that will connect right to your sink.

I use a normal syphon and bucket. I syphon into the bucket and then toss it. Fill up the bucket in the sink and then refill the tank. I dechlorinate the whole tank (new plus old water). That's just how I do it, but I know from reading on here that some people just do the new water. I also don't let it sit, because then it's unlikely to be the same temperature unless you have a heater in the new water as well.
 
#25 ·
A 29 gal is small enough where you could use the bucket and aquarium siphon method, but as a python user for years, I HIGHLY recommend it. You will not be lifting buckets or bending over a lot, and it's easy enough to do even when you are sick as a dog (I tested this personally at the end of last year). You drain the water into a sink or a tub or even out the window (plants love fish poop btw). Add dechlorinator directly to your tank, and then begin to fill the tank using the python hose. It took me a few tries to get it just right. There are videos of how to use the python on youtube; that might help you figure it out better. Sorry I can't give a better explanation.
 
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