Stable PH Levels - Page 2 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #11 of 21 Old 07-08-2010, 11:09 AM
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If your ph is 7.4, they really shouldn't be getting corroded.

You need to get a liquid test kit, and measure Kh AND Ph, and then let us know.

If you want the Ph to stay the same, you can't really add any more calcium. (Calcium buffers the water to prevent ph changes, but normally they raise the Ph a tiny bit as well.)

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post #12 of 21 Old 07-08-2010, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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Byron you have dissapointed me :p

I read 7.4 is good for snails but I want to raise mine just so I can be re-assured their shells are going to be nice and strong, I also read that milk powder can be added, does anyone know anything about this?

The "science" part of fish keeping confuses me more than stocking a tank, maybe I should have paid attention in school lol.
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post #13 of 21 Old 07-09-2010, 06:42 AM
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Caltrate vs. Tums

Tums quickly increases the hardness levels and pH and faster than Caltrate does. Whether it's a downside or not depends on the situation but snails benefit better on this than most fish can. Fish that thrive very well in hard alkaline water should not have issues with pH and hardness levels fluctuating quickly as a result of Tums, not in my experience anyway.

Caltrate, on the other hand, dissolves more slowly and allows the snails time to gobble on them plus it does not cloud the water as badly as the Tums does (although no harm is done the way some calcium pills cloud the water badly).

The choice is yours. I personally prefer Caltrate so I will not have to do a water change just to clear off the cloudiness.

Anything from the sea including seashells is composed 90% of calcium carbonate. That's what your tank needs. Crushed corals and seashells are excellent in catering to your water issues. You can also add seaweeds, plaster of Paris, collards and kale to your snails' diet.

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post #14 of 21 Old 07-09-2010, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupin View Post
Caltrate vs. Tums

Tums quickly increases the hardness levels and pH and faster than Caltrate does. Whether it's a downside or not depends on the situation but snails benefit better on this than most fish can. Fish that thrive very well in hard alkaline water should not have issues with pH and hardness levels fluctuating quickly as a result of Tums, not in my experience anyway.

Caltrate, on the other hand, dissolves more slowly and allows the snails time to gobble on them plus it does not cloud the water as badly as the Tums does (although no harm is done the way some calcium pills cloud the water badly).

The choice is yours. I personally prefer Caltrate so I will not have to do a water change just to clear off the cloudiness.

Anything from the sea including seashells is composed 90% of calcium carbonate. That's what your tank needs. Crushed corals and seashells are excellent in catering to your water issues. You can also add seaweeds, plaster of Paris, collards and kale to your snails' diet.
I've tried the seashells but since shells dissolve slowly in freshwater it doesnt make a difference with the twice weekly water changes I do.

Caltrate and Tums sounded familiar so I googled them and they are for human consumption are you sure this won't affect my shrimp? lol

I have also heard that holiday food blocks contain a lot of calcium, do you know anything about this?

Another day, another million questions asked by me lol

Thanks Lupin you have been a big help
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post #15 of 21 Old 07-09-2010, 11:59 AM
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Another day, another million questions asked by me lol

thats why we keep coming back.. for more questions and often looking for more answers LOL

Back in the Game!!! Live Bearers in a 40 Breeder
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post #16 of 21 Old 07-09-2010, 12:06 PM
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The holiday foor blocks you're talking about are made out of plaster. That's why they're high in calcium.

As for the Tums and Caltrate, yes they're for human consumption. Keep in mind, human quality standards are a bit higher than fish quality standards. Thousands of people have done it, and I've never heard about any problems (other than cloudiness.)

My point however, is that you should go with caltrate. I would rely more on putting calcium into their diet than raising your already-high ph any more.

You REALLY need to test your Kh on your water. It will give you a good idea of how much calcium is dissolved.
Twice weekly water changes? How much do you change?

Seems like a lot, but I'm sure your pets appreciate it.

but, erm. Yea. Go look for the recipe for snail food floating around that's made out of plaster. I can't think of the post right now...

It's still hard for me to believe you don't have enough calcium in the water if your Ph is that high.

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post #17 of 21 Old 07-09-2010, 11:36 PM
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What species of shrimp do you have? Cherry shrimps and ghost shrimps will be fine though. Crystals probably won't since these are never tolerant to hard alkaline conditions. Sensitive punks.

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post #18 of 21 Old 07-10-2010, 08:43 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redchigh View Post
The holiday foor blocks you're talking about are made out of plaster. That's why they're high in calcium.

As for the Tums and Caltrate, yes they're for human consumption. Keep in mind, human quality standards are a bit higher than fish quality standards. Thousands of people have done it, and I've never heard about any problems (other than cloudiness.)

My point however, is that you should go with caltrate. I would rely more on putting calcium into their diet than raising your already-high ph any more.

You REALLY need to test your Kh on your water. It will give you a good idea of how much calcium is dissolved.
Twice weekly water changes? How much do you change?

Seems like a lot, but I'm sure your pets appreciate it.

but, erm. Yea. Go look for the recipe for snail food floating around that's made out of plaster. I can't think of the post right now...

It's still hard for me to believe you don't have enough calcium in the water if your Ph is that high.
I don't know how to test my Kh nor do I have a clue what that is lol

I am slightly OCD with my water changes but twice weekly water changes are only partial, I don't know if that makes a difference :)

So adding calcium to their diet would be better than raising my PH higher than 7.4? How fast would their shells strengthen though? they are only about... I don't know like between 3 and 5 months or something, one is about 4mm and the other 7mm, maybe the reason their shells are damaging so easily is because they are very young and weren't in calcium enriched water when I bought them.

I don't know, what I do know is that I now know why I didn't like science at school, it frys my already puny brain lol

Lupin - I have cherry shrimps in the tank, so they will be fine?

Thanks :)
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post #19 of 21 Old 07-10-2010, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
I don't know how to test my Kh nor do I have a clue what that is lol
The hardness of water involves two aspects; the GH (general hardness) and KH (carbonate hardness--the "K" is because in German carbon is karbon), and the pH is linked to these. GH is the dissolved concentration of calcium and magnesium ions. KH is the measure of the buffering capability of water caused by the presence of carbonate and bicarbonate ions. This buffering affects pH and prevents it from fluctuating due to various processes but only up to the point where the ions are exhausted, then the pH will suddenly fall or rise depending upon the factor being added to the water. This is why the chemicals that allegedly adjust pH do not usually work; the harder the water in terms of KH the more buffering will occur. These substances should never be added to an aquarium with fish because when the buffering capacity is reached the pH can suddenly shift by more than one degree which may be fatal to fish. One degree being pH 7 to 6, or 8 to 9, etc. Because the pH scale is logarithmic, each degree represents a ten-fold change. So a pH of 6 is ten times more acidic than 7, and 5 is 100 times more acidic than 7, etc.

There are test kits, but I do not recommend getting one unless you intend to adjust the hardness (via a natural means, not chemicals) for a particular reason. It is useful to know the GH and KH of your source water (tap water or well water which some use) because these numbers will indicate the degree of buffering likely present and will thus tell you what effect adding wood is likely to have in decreasing the pH, or the opposite adding limestone, dolomite, crushed coral is likely to have raising it. I generally suggest that aquarists contact their water supply board; some have websites and the properties of the water , including hardness, will be given there, or you can contact them directly.

For the purpose of determining calcium in the water, GH is the measurement, as usually it is calcium more than magnesium that causes the hardness in our water. If for instance the GH of your tap water is 6 dGH or 100 ppm the water is "soft." If the GH is 12 dGH or 210 ppm, it is "moderately hard". At 30 dGH or 530 ppm, it is very hard, very suitable for rift lake cichlids. dGH means degrees of GH, and ppm means parts per million; both measurement systems are used, I prefer dGH as the numbers are smaller (this is what we use in our profiles for water hardness ranges) but you can convert from one to the other by multiplying or dividing by 17.8 [going from memory, but I think this is the figure]. So if your water board says your water is 20 dGH, it is basically hard and would probably be high in calcium, at least sufficiently for snails. I'll leave the snails issue for those with more experience .

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

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Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]

Last edited by Byron; 07-10-2010 at 04:12 PM. Reason: correct spelling
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post #20 of 21 Old 07-10-2010, 01:14 PM Thread Starter
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I think that reply was the most complex one yet Byron If only I could understand what it all meant :p just joking, some of it managed to sink in to my blonde brain :p
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