Small, daily water changes - Page 3 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
 4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 39 Old 01-02-2013, 04:26 PM
New Member
 
I am in agreement that if a biological balance can be acheived that water does not have to be changed as much. Right now for some reason, in a planted tank (3.5 weeks old) I'm showing nitrates between 10 and 20 ppm and I'd rather show <5 ppm.

Because of this I've been doing small water changes daily since observing the nitrates. I'm heating water to 21 in the tub (to avoid using hot water tank) so the largest change I've done is 18% today (12% the day before, 10%, 10%).

For some odd reason the nitrate readings persist. I do hate reagant tests where the colour judgement can be subjective. I did check the tap water at trace so that does not appear to be the issue. In soil, it takes some time for nutrient cycling microorganisms (protozoa & nematodes) to establish for plants to uptake all nutrients and I suspect that may be what is occurring here but I'm unfamiliar with the waterplant microbial nutrient loop.

I'm tempted to use a product to lock up the nitrates. Prime has been mentioned but it also treats other things like chloramines which I do not need. Seachem recommends Purigen for this. Any thoughts...experience?
Timjwilson is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 39 Old 01-02-2013, 04:36 PM
JDM
Member
 
JDM's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timjwilson View Post
... I'm heating water to 21 in the tub (to avoid using hot water tank) so the largest change I've done is 18% today (12% the day before, 10%, 10%)...
I chose not to use the hot water tank water either, over concerns of adding unnecessary calcium to the tank. Are there other reasons that it should be avoided?

I have since changed my mind as I am just going to cut in some RO water anyway so the added calcium at that point will be negligible. It would just make preheating the water a lot easier.

Jeff.


Total years fish keeping experience: 7 months, can't start counting in years for a while yet.

The shotgun approach to a planted tank with an LED fixture

Small scale nitrogen cycle with a jar, water and fish food; no substrate, filter etc
JDM is offline  
post #23 of 39 Old 01-02-2013, 04:43 PM
Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timjwilson View Post
I am in agreement that if a biological balance can be acheived that water does not have to be changed as much. Right now for some reason, in a planted tank (3.5 weeks old) I'm showing nitrates between 10 and 20 ppm and I'd rather show <5 ppm.

Because of this I've been doing small water changes daily since observing the nitrates. I'm heating water to 21 in the tub (to avoid using hot water tank) so the largest change I've done is 18% today (12% the day before, 10%, 10%).

For some odd reason the nitrate readings persist. I do hate reagant tests where the colour judgement can be subjective. I did check the tap water at trace so that does not appear to be the issue. In soil, it takes some time for nutrient cycling microorganisms (protozoa & nematodes) to establish for plants to uptake all nutrients and I suspect that may be what is occurring here but I'm unfamiliar with the waterplant microbial nutrient loop.

I'm tempted to use a product to lock up the nitrates. Prime has been mentioned but it also treats other things like chloramines which I do not need. Seachem recommends Purigen for this. Any thoughts...experience?
Tim

I would not use any chemicals expecially to lower nitrates.

An initial nitrate value is part of a planted tank cycle as the plants are consuming ammonia for nitrogen.

Just let things be and nitrates will drop down once the aerobic bacteria build up and consume the ammonia.

My .02

maintain Fw and marine system with a strong emphasis on balanced, stabilized system that as much as possible are self substaning.

have maintained FW systems for up to 9 years with descendants from original fish and marine aquariums for up to 8 years.

With no water changes, untreated tap water, inexpensive lighting by first starting the tank with live plants (FW) or macro algae( marine)

see: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/a...-build-295530/
beaslbob is offline  
post #24 of 39 Old 01-02-2013, 04:46 PM
Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I chose not to use the hot water tank water either, over concerns of adding unnecessary calcium to the tank. Are there other reasons that it should be avoided?

I have since changed my mind as I am just going to cut in some RO water anyway so the added calcium at that point will be negligible. It would just make preheating the water a lot easier.

Jeff.

Copper. From the hot water heater is another conceern. I always use straight tap water from a commonly use cold water faucet. And let the water run 30 seconds to a minute before collecting. (I also just top off). That way I reduce copper and other things that result for long hot water contact with the water heater tank.


my .02

maintain Fw and marine system with a strong emphasis on balanced, stabilized system that as much as possible are self substaning.

have maintained FW systems for up to 9 years with descendants from original fish and marine aquariums for up to 8 years.

With no water changes, untreated tap water, inexpensive lighting by first starting the tank with live plants (FW) or macro algae( marine)

see: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/a...-build-295530/
beaslbob is offline  
post #25 of 39 Old 01-02-2013, 04:50 PM
Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nilet699 View Post
haha that was a cheap answer!

Yea

I increased my .02 once and no takers.

maintain Fw and marine system with a strong emphasis on balanced, stabilized system that as much as possible are self substaning.

have maintained FW systems for up to 9 years with descendants from original fish and marine aquariums for up to 8 years.

With no water changes, untreated tap water, inexpensive lighting by first starting the tank with live plants (FW) or macro algae( marine)

see: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/a...-build-295530/
beaslbob is offline  
post #26 of 39 Old 01-02-2013, 05:17 PM
Member
 
Byron's Avatar
 
Quote:
If my readings are Am-0 Nitri- 0 and Nitra- never been above 3,(closer to 1(its a 1-5 scale)) even with a longer gap between water changes etc - over xmas - would i class this as having a balance? If thats the case, why do i change the water?
Quote:
Ok, so i change it to lower nitrates......if they never rose- ive obviously not tested this over a long term basis - i basically wouldnt need to change it for that.

What about other minerals etc etc that get used up in the tank? Doesnt a water change supplement these, how do you then deal with this - if we are going to go wildly of topic, i'd be happy to take this to PM. I dont want to ruin the thread.
On the reason for water changes, I ask that you read my article on the subject as I see no need to repeat two pages here when it is all there. Here is the link:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/f...hanges-117205/

As you will see, water changes are essential in most fish tanks. There may be a few exceptions. But these are not the tanks most of us have.

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
Byron is offline  
post #27 of 39 Old 01-02-2013, 05:51 PM
New Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob View Post
Tim

I would not use any chemicals expecially to lower nitrates.

An initial nitrate value is part of a planted tank cycle as the plants are consuming ammonia for nitrogen.

Just let things be and nitrates will drop down once the aerobic bacteria build up and consume the ammonia.

My .02
Do you see any value in inoculating with Seachem Stability, supposedly aerobic and facultative anaerobic bacterial spores?
Timjwilson is offline  
post #28 of 39 Old 01-02-2013, 05:53 PM
Member
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timjwilson View Post
Do you see any value in inoculating with Seachem Stability, supposedly aerobic and facultative anaerobic bacterial spores?

no.
Timjwilson likes this.

maintain Fw and marine system with a strong emphasis on balanced, stabilized system that as much as possible are self substaning.

have maintained FW systems for up to 9 years with descendants from original fish and marine aquariums for up to 8 years.

With no water changes, untreated tap water, inexpensive lighting by first starting the tank with live plants (FW) or macro algae( marine)

see: http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/a...-build-295530/
beaslbob is offline  
post #29 of 39 Old 01-02-2013, 08:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I chose not to use the hot water tank water either, over concerns of adding unnecessary calcium to the tank. Are there other reasons that it should be avoided?
There should be little concern over using some hot water from a hot water tank as the amount of calcium and lime is so very small. It is always a good idea to let water run awhile before using for the aquarium to flush out water that has set in the pipes (copper, lead, etc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob View Post

I would not use any chemicals expecially to lower nitrates.
There are no chemicals that remove nitrates. Prime binds nitrates which merely detoxifies them for 24-48 hours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob View Post
An initial nitrate value is part of a planted tank cycle as the plants are consuming ammonia for nitrogen.

Just let things be and nitrates will drop down once the aerobic bacteria build up and consume the ammonia.
My .02
This statement is incorrect. aerobic nitrosomonas bacteria oxidizes ammonia into nitrites and aerobic nitrosprira bacteria oxidize nitrites into nitrates....as a result, nitrates increase. There are species of anaerobic bacteria that will oxidize nitrates into nitrogen gas. However, these bacteria can only survive in an environment with little/no oxygen which is extremely difficult to create in a fish aquarium.

The notion that there is no need for routine water changes is equally incorrect. Oh with a lot of plants and very little stock, one might 'get away' with few if any water changes, but it's risky for the vast majority of aquariums. As Byron (and countless experts) point out, all aquariums with stock benefit from the periodic removal of polluted water, replacing it with fresh water...just as nature renews fresh water with rain.

And to the OP, your water isn't so bad.... I have 60-80ppm nitrates in my well water from a 95 acre farmers field across the road!!!

Your plan to minimize water changes is good. Use lots of plants, even floating to reduce tank nitrates. Keeping the tank and filter clean and not over feeding really helps.
Seachem Purigen can be used to adsorb dissolved organics, before they become part of the nitrogen cycle. Purigen can be regenerated several times in a 50/50 water/bleach mix.
Products like Fluval Lab Series Nitrate Remover (FNR) and API's Nitra-Zorb are synthetic resins that effectively adsorb nitrates. They are regenerated in a salt water solution.

Keep us posted.

regards,
AD

Father Knows Best but Abbey knows everything! I once knew everything, then I asked one question.
` •...><((((º>` • . ¸¸ . • ´` • . . . ¸><((((º>¸ . • ´` • .. . ¸ ><((((º>

Last edited by AbbeysDad; 01-02-2013 at 11:22 PM.
AbbeysDad is offline  
post #30 of 39 Old 01-03-2013, 04:46 AM Thread Starter
New Member
 
Off into town today, so I'll go to my LFD and see what he has in the line of Nitrate absorbing filter media. I was always under the impression the nitrate removers were some some of liquid chemical you added to the water *doh* and I hate adding chemicals.

I know I'm also probably guilty of overfeeding so I'll cut back and miss out feeding altogether one day a week. I will get these nitrates down *stamps foot*

Thanks for everyone's help, even that which went over my head.

This is a great forum and very friendly. I ventured into one or two fish forums before I settled here and found some of them a bit erm ... over critical ...not always helpful when you are genuinely trying to create the best environment for your fish.

I'll let you know how it goes
CelsB is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shall i have change water daily for ICH aamirahmed70 Tropical Fish Diseases 1 02-27-2010 11:28 AM

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome