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Small, daily water changes

This is a discussion on Small, daily water changes within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Originally Posted by Byron I agree with those who have suggested that more frequent water changes but changing less water each time is actually ...

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Small, daily water changes
Old 01-02-2013, 12:21 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by Byron View Post
I agree with those who have suggested that more frequent water changes but changing less water each time is actually beneficial in your situation with high nitrates in the tap water.

And I would use Prime in this case, since it binds the nitrates somehow [Seachem themselves are not exactly sure how] and this allows the plants and the special bacteria that use nitrates to have the time to take them up. An initial "shock" of high nitrates at every water change wold not be good for the fish.

Final comment on nitrate levels, we now understand that these should never be allowed to rise above 20ppm and preferably remain below 10ppm. There is sufficient scientific evidence that long-term nitrates above 20ppm do harm most of the fish we maintain.

Byron.
Thank you Byron. I will continue with my small, frequent water changes then and keep my eye on my water parameters.

Thanks also for your reply Beaslbob. I embarrassed to say I didn't really understand it
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:35 PM   #12
 
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Thank you Byron. I will continue with my small, frequent water changes then and keep my eye on my water parameters.

Thanks also for your reply Beaslbob. I embarrassed to say I didn't really understand it
that is understandable.

What happens is your tank will wind up at a point where the "stuff" you remove in a water changes equals the build up between water changes. A 1/10 water change the tank build up to 10 times then down to 9 times. 1/20 20 times down to 19. 1/3 3 times etc etc etc.

Byron is correct the small frequent changes will result in more constant parameters. but it is still very possible to have high values. But the after water change values will not drop as much.

For example assume you have a 1/day increase and the water changes have nothing and the amount of change is tied to the frequency. So that 10% every 10 days, 20% every 20 days etc etc etc

Here is where the tank winds up.


%____fraction____days____increase_____ beforechange_____after change

100____1/1______100_____100______________100__________00
_50____1/2_______50______50______________100__________50
_33____1/3_______33______33______________100__________67
_20____1/5_______20______20______________100__________80
_10____1/10______10______10______________100__________90
__5____1/20_______5_______5______________100__________95
__1____1/100______1_______1______________100__________99

continuous flow equally to 1%/day------------continuous 100

No that should really really confuse everyone.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:54 PM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by beaslbob View Post
No that should really really confuse everyone.
I kind of got your last post more i think! Your right, now im thouroughly confused i think!?

There needs to be a ''for dummies'' version of this
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:14 PM   #14
 
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I kind of got your last post more i think! Your right, now im thouroughly confused i think!?

There needs to be a ''for dummies'' version of this

sorry,That's the best I can do.

bottom line is it's better to balance out the tank then to rely on water changes.


my .02
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:30 PM   #15
 
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Now that works for me!

What determines a balanced tank then?

If my readings are Am-0 Nitri- 0 and Nitra- never been above 3,(closer to 1(its a 1-5 scale)) even with a longer gap between water changes etc - over xmas - would i class this as having a balance? If thats the case, why do i change the water?
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:01 PM   #16
 
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Now that works for me!

What determines a balanced tank then?

If my readings are Am-0 Nitri- 0 and Nitra- never been above 3,(closer to 1(its a 1-5 scale)) even with a longer gap between water changes etc - over xmas - would i class this as having a balance? If thats the case, why do i change the water?
for ammonia and nitrItes you woul dseem to be in balance.

Never heard of a nitrate kit with a 1-5 scale. The api nitrIte kit does max out at 5 but the nitrate test kit has color bars up to 160ppm.


a balanced tank to me is one where fish wastes are fully consumed balanced by plants and vice versa. A stable tank is where the values return to those values should something pull them away from that balance. (note stable can be varying but that variation is stable).

Perhaps if the tank just sets there and never tips over it is balanced also?

my .02
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:02 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Nilet699 View Post
Now that works for me!

What determines a balanced tank then?

If my readings are Am-0 Nitri- 0 and Nitra- never been above 3,(closer to 1(its a 1-5 scale)) even with a longer gap between water changes etc - over xmas - would i class this as having a balance? If thats the case, why do i change the water?
There are more things than just nitrates that build up in the tank, things that we don't measure for. Most of this has more to do with overstocking what the aquarium "system" can absorb and convert to something usable by something else in the "system" than anything else. If it were balanced and efficient then, like those ecoshperes posted about before Christmas here, you could seal it up and let it run on it's own for quite some time.

Jeff.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:03 PM   #18
 
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Now that works for me!

What determines a balanced tank then?

If my readings are Am-0 Nitri- 0 and Nitra- never been above 3,(closer to 1(its a 1-5 scale)) even with a longer gap between water changes etc - over xmas - would i class this as having a balance? If thats the case, why do i change the water?
If the tank is balanced and stable then you change the water because people have told you to do so.

I don't change the water.


my .02
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:09 PM   #19
 
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haha that was a cheap answer! I think you can do better

Ok, so i change it to lower nitrates......if they never rose- ive obviously not tested this over a long term basis - i basically wouldnt need to change it for that.

What about other minerals etc etc that get used up in the tank? Doesnt a water change supplement these, how do you then deal with this - if we are going to go wildly of topic, i'd be happy to take this to PM. I dont want to ruin the thread.
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Old 01-02-2013, 02:23 PM   #20
 
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haha that was a cheap answer! I think you can do better

Ok, so i change it to lower nitrates......if they never rose- ive obviously not tested this over a long term basis - i basically wouldnt need to change it for that.

What about other minerals etc etc that get used up in the tank? Doesnt a water change supplement these, how do you then deal with this - if we are going to go wildly of topic, i'd be happy to take this to PM. I dont want to ruin the thread.
sounds to me like this is a rather logical and natural continuation of the thread.

In Fw tanks you do have carbonate hardness (KH) (carbonate- ions) and general hardness (calcium,magnesium+ ions). Plus total dissolved solids as well.

I did have an increase in KH and GH in my tanks with a plain sand substrate but both remained constant and low in a tank with peat moss. And I did have problems with neon tetras with the plain substrate but all fish including neons lived for years and years with the peat moss.

PH in both tank rose to levels of 8.4-8.8 (api high range test kits).

While a water change will limit changes it will not totally reverse the effects. As the really really nerdy equation points out.

so what you have to do is find ways of balancing out those things as well.

Fw I use the peat moss.

For marine I use the diy two part method to maintain calcium, alk, magnesium.


To me the only real alternative is to be honest and run a totally open system. Hook your tank up to a constant water sounce like the ocean, a pond, or stream. And constantly pump water to the tank and let the tank water return to that source. And you would have to do it at a level to where you have several water changes each day.

In that way what is going on with tank is not relevant.

But of course the input water becomes the only thing that is relevant.

With a closed sytem balanced out stabilized, the input water is not relevant only the processes at work in the tank itself.


my .02

Last edited by beaslbob; 01-02-2013 at 02:26 PM..
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