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Setting Up New 10g Tank - Need Advice

15K views 114 replies 10 participants last post by  Big Fish 
#1 · (Edited)
Howdy,

I just finished setting up a 10g tank to move my new fish into. Here are the pertinent facts:

3 Mollys
2 Guppy
2 Platy

In a 2G holding tank.

So, I have a brand new 10g Tank.

I just washed and cleaned my tank stones and put them in the bottom.
I filled the tank with water.
Added Safe2O
Added Big Als Multi Purpose Bio Support

I also put in two bunches of LIVE PLANTS (cabomba).

Filter has been running almost 24 hours with the Safe2O.
I put in the Multi Purpose Bio only a few hours ago.

So, when can I start bringing over the fish?

Thanks in advance.

Big Fish in a new hobby.:lol::-D
 
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#36 ·
Byron,

I love your posts! :) They answer my questions well and scare me to death at the same time! LOL

So, I now have to learn about water parameters!! SHIVER-ME-TIMBERS!

OK, so, if the bottom feeders add to the stress of the bio-load, I would rather populate the tank with more interesting fish. I also think I am going to have a problem with the Molly's. I have two males and one female. The larger male is very amorous and has been doing the "nasty" non stop lately. I suspect there may be an increase in the Molly population soon. That is going to be a whole new headache wading into unchartered waters!!! I will wait and see before I panic. How can you tell if the female is prego?

My favorites in the tank currently are the Red Platy. They are very attractive and I would like to add another pair, maybe a different type. How can I figure out when I am maxed out?

Thanks again, you have been a treasure trove of information and help and I greatly appreciate the detail of your answers.

Big Fish
 
#37 ·
Thank you. If you have male and female mollies or platys they will breed non-stop. You will have hundreds of fry in no time. That being the case, I would not add any more fish. [I had missed this point previously.] Your problem is going to be what to do with the fry. If left in the tank, the other fish will eat some of them, but many will likely survive. Better have a room of tanks ready:lol: or find a store or someone to take them.

The advantage (depending upon how one views things) of egglayers is that they will often spawn but the eggs are quickly (within seconds usually) gobbled up by other fish. With livebearers, the fry have a better chance of darting into plants, and finding food is not usually a problem for them at their size. And once a female is impregnated, she can deliver fry every 3-4 weeks and for several months from just one mating. This is why those who want to selectively breed strains have to separate the young almost immediately; the fish develop the ability to mate very early, and once mated the female is no longer useful for selective breeding.

Enjoy your livebearers. I'll bet this post has really scared you.;-)

Byron.
 
#38 ·
OH BOY!!! [wacking the side of my head!]:cry:

Well, finding someone to take them is out. So, that leaves a store, I guess. Wasn't counting on this. I guess I will have to make a few phone calls. I need this like a hole in the head!:lol:

Several MONTHS!!!!!!! Come on!! Seriously? How many fry are delivered at a time? Maybe, it would be best to give up the female now before this starts. How can you tell she is ready to start popping them out?:roll:

This isn't going to go over well with the young fish lover in the house! Every fish has a name!:shock:

The Platys and the guppies I have are two male pairs so there is no worries about breeding.

Are stores typcially receptive to FREE FISH from unknown tanks? These originally came from Big Al's.
 
#39 ·
OH BOY!!! [wacking the side of my head!]:cry:

Well, finding someone to take them is out. So, that leaves a store, I guess. Wasn't counting on this. I guess I will have to make a few phone calls. I need this like a hole in the head!:lol:

Several MONTHS!!!!!!! Come on!! Seriously? How many fry are delivered at a time? Maybe, it would be best to give up the female now before this starts. How can you tell she is ready to start popping them out?:roll:

This isn't going to go over well with the young fish lover in the house! Every fish has a name!:shock:

The Platys and the guppies I have are two male pairs so there is no worries about breeding.

Are stores typcially receptive to FREE FISH from unknown tanks? These originally came from Big Al's.
It's been 20 years since i last had livebearers, so i checked around and here's a site with info that is as i remember things. Black Molly

It mentiones a female delivering 60 fry every 2.5 months, and also talks about what I mentioned previously about impregnation and the importance of separating males and females quickly after birth. You can find info on platys, but if memory serves me they are very similar.

Each store has its own policy on taking fish I expect, probably dependant upon how many they can sell and what, if anything, you want for them in return. You'd probably have plenty of takers in Vancouver, since with our very soft water livebearers do not fare well unless one provides the harder alkaline (basic) water they need to be healthy. The owner of the 2 Big Al's stores here told me a week or so back that he seldom sees customers bringing in livebearer fry like he would elsewhere in NA because with our water the fish don't last long. He treats his water and sells quite a few livebearers brought in from suppliers.

Byron.
 
#40 ·
Well, if I could ship to him, I would... gladly! LOL

I have concluded my tank maintanence for the first week. I vacuumed the bottom, got a fair amount of the stuff out of the gravel. I took out 2 gallons of water before I stopped.

I have poured back in clean, declorinated water and added the new tank, Multi-Purpose again for bacteria.

The water does not seem quite as clear as I would like. Is this normal? Overall, the tank is clean. Just a tad cloudy. Fish seem very happy, swimming around. In fact, the guppies have become more vibrant in color.
 
#41 ·
Well, if I could ship to him, I would... gladly! LOL

I have concluded my tank maintanence for the first week. I vacuumed the bottom, got a fair amount of the stuff out of the gravel. I took out 2 gallons of water before I stopped.

I have poured back in clean, declorinated water and added the new tank, Multi-Purpose again for bacteria.

The water does not seem quite as clear as I would like. Is this normal? Overall, the tank is clean. Just a tad cloudy. Fish seem very happy, swimming around. In fact, the guppies have become more vibrant in color.
Yes, perfectly normal after a pwc [although I can't see it to be sure it is normal cloudy or abnormal cloudy;-)]. All the very fine stuff stirred up takes a while to settle or get trapped in the filter, whichever. I find mine are "clear" the following day. A pwc is a trick used to push fish into spawning, as the change in water chemistry (however slight it may be) simulates a tropical rainstorm which triggers spawning in the fish at the start of the rainy season when the land floods and food is plentiful. There's usually more activity in general after a pwc.

Byron.
 
#42 ·
It is a very slight cloudy so I suspect it is the fine stuff stirred up. I have turned up the volume on the filter to max to work it through the filter. Fish are very energetic, especially the Mollies. Boy-oy. Non stop action with these two!! LOL

Is there a technic for getting more crud out of the bottom of the tank and less water. I would like to take more time with the suction but the water it moves seems to be pretty quick. 2g disappeared in no time and I stopped draining. I focused on the open areas and most of it seem to be in the front. Someone told me to slant the gravel at the bottom of the tank from back to front and it would push the waste to the front. Seemed to work. Most of it seemed up front. I did move the gravel a bit and it did dislodge stuff quickly, as you suggested in an earlier post.
 
#44 ·
It is a very slight cloudy so I suspect it is the fine stuff stirred up. I have turned up the volume on the filter to max to work it through the filter. Fish are very energetic, especially the Mollies. Boy-oy. Non stop action with these two!! LOL

Is there a technic for getting more crud out of the bottom of the tank and less water. I would like to take more time with the suction but the water it moves seems to be pretty quick. 2g disappeared in no time and I stopped draining. I focused on the open areas and most of it seem to be in the front. Someone told me to slant the gravel at the bottom of the tank from back to front and it would push the waste to the front. Seemed to work. Most of it seemed up front. I did move the gravel a bit and it did dislodge stuff quickly, as you suggested in an earlier post.
There are varying views as to how much vacuuming of the substrate should be done. In a planted tank, many recommend little if any, as the mulm breaks down and bacteria convert it to nitrogen and such for the plants especially those with good root systems (as opposed to stem and floaters). I usually go over the gravel in the open areas because the corys feed there and I like to keep it tidy for them. I go down about 1/2 an inch I guess in these places; otherwise I tend to run the syphon tube over the surface without really dislodging the gravel, and I make sure to get around the small plants like the pygmy chain swords because stuff can build up around them quickly and some plant authorities suggest this is detrimental to the plants.

If you go down very far you will disturb the bacteria down there which I personally think it better not to do. They are there for a purpose, whether aerobic or anaerobic, and its all part of the biological equilibrium in the tank. There is quite a comlex process going on in the substrate, between the plant roots (which produce oxygen for some of the bacteria), the aerobic bacteria, and the anaerobic bacteria.

Are you using a manual water changer, or one connected to a faucet (like the Python model)? If the latter, you can vary the amount of water at the tap, less water turned on means less suction so less is drawn out of the tank. The manual ones run as they do, and yes, it can be quick. I've never seen a manual one with a guage to adjust.
 
#43 ·
Food Question.

I have purchased a couple more containers of food and I am mixing the food together before dropping it in the tank.

I have:

Wardley Essentials Tropical Fish Flakes
Wardley Essentials Guppy Flakes
Big Als Spirulina Color enhancement Flake Food

I am feeding 3 times a day and there is a frenzy when I come near the tank. Pretty hilarious. Who knew fish could be trained! LOL

Any downside to what I am doing?
 
#45 · (Edited)
Food Question.

I have purchased a couple more containers of food and I am mixing the food together before dropping it in the tank.

I have:

Wardley Essentials Tropical Fish Flakes
Wardley Essentials Guppy Flakes
Big Als Spirulina Color enhancement Flake Food

I am feeding 3 times a day and there is a frenzy when I come near the tank. Pretty hilarious. Who knew fish could be trained! LOL

Any downside to what I am doing?
Goodness me, I can't keep up with you!:lol: Must be few others online, or I'm sure they'd be jumping in. Anyway, I'm here, so...

My one suggestion would be to forget the colour enhancing food. I've no scientific evidence, so this is purely my own thinking and may be wrong, but I suspect there are things in that food that may not be the best in nourishment. In another thread or perhaps another forum, I recall recently reading that some aquarists feel there are chemicals or other substances in the food (the colour enhancers) that the fish really don't need. Better to feed natural foods. Again, this is only passing on what I've read. I've looked at these cans in the store and always put them down fairly quickly.

I use Wardley's Essential flakes as one of my three or four regulars, along with Tetra, OSI and Nutrafin, all "basic" flakes. I also have Earthworm flakes (haven't used these yet, saw them and knowing how nutritious earthworms are for larger fish I though the hatchets and characins might like it). And freeze dried bloodworms, handy for surface fish because they are chunky but float like small insects. And then I have 3 types of sinking tablet/pellet food, one being a vegetable (spirulina/algae) because of the Farlowella and Whiptail but all the fish go after it so they're getting their veggies too.

I would probably reduce feedings to twice a day, or even once. I read in one article that all the nutrition a normal fish requires for the day can be found in just one flake. And of course many go away on vacation for a week or even two and say they don't bother having the fish fed, if they are healthy beforehand. I feed flake and tablet in the morning, about an hour or so after the tank lights come on; and in the early evening I feed frozen bloodworms or frozen daphnia. I actually only do the latter because I have a few species of fish in both tanks that are wild caught and will not eat anything but live or frozen bloodworms (I've managed to wean them onto this). I see some of them picking at flake in the morning, but I'm not sure how much they actually eat.

Fish are pretty quick to learn things where food is concerned. When I was working I had to leave here before dawn so I never fed the fish in the morning. Always first thing when I got home at 6 pm. And they knew it. Every day, even on weekends when I was here and around the tanks, they would all congregate at the top left corner (where i always fed them) around 5-6 but basically ignored me the earlier part of the day simply because they did not expect food then. And now that I feed them in the morning, they do the same, but if I go into the fishroom at noon I do not get the same response. But around 5 pm (when I now feed the bloodworms), they are ready; and the three spotted woodcats (they are one of the bloodworms-only eaters) in the 115g that are totally nocturnal and spend the daylight inside tunnels in the wood, know and are sitting at the tunnel entrances looking and waiting, and as soon as the glass slides back they are charging around the wood in a circle. When I close the tank lid afterwards, they disappear back into their tunnels until total darkness descends.

Fascinating hobby isn't it--and a fascinating world.

Byron.
 
#46 ·
> Goodness me, I can't keep up with you!:)

Well, this is all new to me and I figure it is best to ask while the fish are moving around the bottom of the tank rather than just floating upside down on the top!! :lol:;-)

I hear you on both counts.

The siphon I am using is a simple manual one. A big cylinder and a hose. I will stick with this for now. As this is all new and novel, I don't mind the work. Later, if this remains as interesting, I will invest in a bigger tank and better equipment.

Sorry to place a heavy question burden on you. I do have one more question about that cloudy water.

How can I tell if it is the WRONG cloudy water? If this is all stirred up stuff, then it should clear by late evening with the help of the filter. If not, what then?
 
#49 ·
Good. That means it was the "normal" cloudiness following a pwc. I didn't respond yesterday as I was offline, back on just now.

Yes, as I recall livebearers produce a fair amount of waste, and of course the more you feed them the more there will be; I gather you're considering reducing the feeding, probably a good idea. The other thing about overfeeding is that it quickens their metabolism [not sure i've got the right word] which is like wearing them out sooner. As with other animals including we humans, overeating is not a good idea.

Everything seems to be on track. Looking back through this thread, you have plants and used a biological supplement, and with that I expected things would be fine and after a week they seem to be from your posts. Good work.

Byron.
 
#52 ·
Byron (or anyone else who wishes to respond to give Byron a break! lol)

My green cabomba plants are flourishing. So much so, I already need to trim them.

I was told to cut them from the bottom. Now, since the bottoms are nicely rooted and the plant itself can regenerate from any cut part (from what I have noticed in the aquarium) is it safe to simply cut it in half along the stem and stick the cut part back into the bottom of the tank as a new growth?

I believe these re-root themselves quickly.

Thanks
 
#53 ·
Yes they will. The bottom part may do one of two things; either remain "as is" and perhaps fade/die off, or send out new shoots from the point where the top was cut. It's been years since I experimented with cabomba and I can't be sure on this, but I know some stem plants will do the latter.

Most find that the bottom portions of stem plants tend to loose ther leaves (probably due to less light getting down to them) as the uper portions aproach the surface (and spread along it if allowed to), which is why pruning generally takes the form of pulling up the plant and cutting off the top part to replant and tossing out the lower. That's how I do my Pennywort.

Cabomba is not an easy plant for many of us, so you are doing something right. Keep on with it.

Byron.
 
#56 ·
I just complete a PWC.

I also read up on the CYCLE again. I think I am over feeding.:roll: I like feeding the little buggers but I suspect this is the cause.

Also, my API MASTER KIT finally came in so now I am a budding chemist.

After a PWC, do you test the water right away or wait a bit?

Thanks
 
#57 ·
I just complete a PWC.

I also read up on the CYCLE again. I think I am over feeding.:roll: I like feeding the little buggers but I suspect this is the cause.

Also, my API MASTER KIT finally came in so now I am a budding chemist.

After a PWC, do you test the water right away or wait a bit?

Thanks
I wait a bit after a pwc to do any tests, but then I only test for pH after a pwc. Tests for ammonia or nitrite should be done before the pwc, and then a few minutes after if you had either above "0" before the pwc.

I am concerned about the ammonia reading of 2, are you sure? I am assuming this tank is cycled. And I believe you have plants in this tank? If yes, there should never be ammonia or nitrite readings. Might want to re-test; and check the expiry date on the regeant, it is on the bottom of the bottle, the last four numbers are the expiry date, e.g., 0410 means April 2010.
 
#58 ·
I have live plants. 2 types of the same kind... Cobomba. Still very healthy and growing.

I am very sure. The colors were between 1 and 2. In my opinion, the greens are too close together in shades on the strip! However, there was no lime green color in it so I have to say 2.

I will do another test now and see what it says and repost.

There are no dates per say on the bottom, just LOT Numbers.

They all end in 09, so I have to think this is fresh stuff. I just came into the store as they have been OoS for two weeks! I think these are MADE ON THIS DATE dates.

I will re-run the test now...
 
#60 ·
Byron,

The reading now is definitly 1.0. NO..... I still say 2.0.
I asked for a second opinion on the color. It is still 2!!

What should I do?

I have:
Safe2O
Prime
All Purpose
Chemicals handy...
First, to get it out of the way, re the expiry date on API regeants: The 09 means the regeant expires this year, on the month which would be the two numbers immediatly before 09, e.g., if the lot number ends in ...0709 it means it expired in July this year. You need to check these in the store before buying them; they might have been on the store shelf for months. Once I had found this out (from API) I checked my kits and discovered they had actually expired before I bought them. Now, having said that, I have had some test kits working fine years later (pH and hardness kits, I know they worked because I have checked them against brand new kits with identical results). I dug back through my info as i came across this stuff in another forum, and I can't track it down at the moment, so I acknowledge I may be mixing things up but I don't think so. I'l try to get an answer direct from API (their website says it may take a couple days for a response) and post whatever I discover from them.

As for the ammonia...what do the fish look like? There is a site called the krib which has lots of info on water chemistry and from there I see that with a pH of 7.5 (yours is 7.6) at a temperature of 77F (25C), an ammonia reading of 1.2 is considered dangerous. Here's the link to the page: Beginner FAQ: The Nitrogen Cycle

If the test kit is accurate, I would expect to see some stress in the fish; difficulty respirating, hanging at the surface, red gills open...since ammonia burns the gills. An immediate pwc to reduce the ammonia would be prudent, using Prime water conditioner which you have as it detoxifies ammonia.

But you need to find out what is causing this, if it is really happening. Do you have ammonia in your tap water? Overfeeding (has to be pretty drastic to cause this much ammonia), dead fish (?), recent filter media replacement or rinsing in chlorinated water to kill the bacteria (?), adding a number of new fish (?) are all possible causes. I asked about the plants because plants remove ammonia very fast; new tanks that are reasonably heavily planted cycle immediately with fish. And cabomba is a fast growing plant which means it is using ammonium more quickly than slow growing plants; all this depends upon the fish load of course.

One last thought...those "chemicals handy" you mention...have you put anything other than water conditioner in this tank recently? And what is "Safe20" and "All Purpose"?

Byron.
 
#61 ·
Here is an example of a Lot number:

83A0609

Fish look fine. No ill effects, nothing out of the ordinary. Swimming fine. Absolutely nothing looks out of the ordinary.

Plants are growing fine. I trimmed them on the weekend and there is more noticable growth.

Fliter is one month old out of the box.

I have changed the water regularly and vacuumed.

I admit I have OVERFEED. I love watching them eat. 2 times a day, a healthy dose, usually, no trace after 5 minutes.

They are seldom near the top, typically looking around, skimming the bottom for more food. The M-F molly are constantly "going at it" or the m chases the other male.

The guppies just flutter around normally. I see no stress.

Water has a slight cloudy ting to it.


I started with 3 Mollies. I added 2 Platy and 2 Guppies. Tank has been going about 4, maybe 5 weeks.

NO DEAD FISH.

Non look ill or even near being ill.

I added a 1/4 cap of PRIME today on the LFS recommendation.

I typically use SAFE 2O from Wardley to remove chlorine before adding water.

The MultiPurpose is a BIO-SUPPORT from Big Al's, their brand, I believe.

Nothing has been added to the tank in weeks, the plants were the last addition.


So, I am at a loss too!
 
#62 ·
Here is an example of a Lot number:

83A0609

Fish look fine. No ill effects, nothing out of the ordinary. Swimming fine. Absolutely nothing looks out of the ordinary.

Plants are growing fine. I trimmed them on the weekend and there is more noticable growth.

Fliter is one month old out of the box.

I have changed the water regularly and vacuumed.

I admit I have OVERFEED. I love watching them eat. 2 times a day, a healthy dose, usually, no trace after 5 minutes.

They are seldom near the top, typically looking around, skimming the bottom for more food. The M-F molly are constantly "going at it" or the m chases the other male.

The guppies just flutter around normally. I see no stress.

Water has a slight cloudy ting to it.


I started with 3 Mollies. I added 2 Platy and 2 Guppies. Tank has been going about 4, maybe 5 weeks.

NO DEAD FISH.

Non look ill or even near being ill.

I added a 1/4 cap of PRIME today on the LFS recommendation.

I typically use SAFE 2O from Wardley to remove chlorine before adding water.

The MultiPurpose is a BIO-SUPPORT from Big Al's, their brand, I believe.

Nothing has been added to the tank in weeks, the plants were the last addition.


So, I am at a loss too!
From all this I can see three possibilities.

1. Test kit is inaccurate. It expired in June this year according to the lot number [subject to my confirmation from API on how to read this], but I wouldn't panic over that, in my experience they continue working for months. This is just one possibility, although in my view not likely here.

2. Tank is not yet cycled. Nitrite is 0 as is Nitrate, Ammonia at 2. Have you had any readings for Nitrite previously during the last 2-3 weeks? If yes, then this is probably not the answer, but if you have so far had no nitrite, it could be cycling. [Nitrate I don't worry about, it's the nitrite that will indicate the cycling is/was working through, although again with plants ammonia and nitrite can be zero throughout.]

3. This Multi-Purpose Bio-Support may be the culprit. I checked the Big Al's site, and it has:

[direct cite] Big Al's Multi-Purpose Bio-Support contains 300 million live bacteria per teaspoonful to enhance the growth of any biological filter and reduce ammonia build up. Regular use of Big Al's Multi-Purpose Bio- Support keeps the biological filter working efficiently. It will help break down harmful organic compounds that cause dangerous conditions. Continuous use of Big Al's Bio-Support assures a healthy biological filter, good water quality, healthy fish, and a clean aquarium. ...

The bold is my editing. This phrase makes me think it will cause ammonia to increase. In order for any organic compound to break down (through bacteria), ammonia is produced. Solid fish waste is (presumably in their view) such an organic compound, and we all know it produces ammonia as it decomposes, just as dying fish and dying plant leaves do. If this product is actually breaking down organics, then ammonia will occur as a result. Even though it supposedly has live bacteria to reduce ammonia (presumably nitrosomonas bacteria), it takes time for those to catch up.

I came across this in another thread a few weeks back, where an aquarist had high ammonia readings and it turned out to be due to his use of a product by Nutrafin to "clean" the aquarium--can't think of the name at the moment, but I did find a similar product on Big Al's called Multi-Purpose Bio-Clean. On this as on the Nutrafin, it says it may cause a spike in ammonia. Again, this is because of what it does, breaking down organics.

I'd like to know your answer to the nitrite question before offering any suggestion.

Byron.
 
#63 ·
Byron,

I have no readings from before because I was waiting for the kit to be back in stock. B-A was out of stock for over 2 weeks. Yesterday was the first day I saw it in the store and purchased it and made the readings.

So, I can't tell you what was happening before.

In regards to the Bio Support, there are a couple of extremely knowledgable people in the B-A in my area.

They said that you could add tons of the BIO-Support and it wouldn't harm the fish. He said I could add it freely and weekly and it would only enhance.

They also told me to drop in a 1/4 cap of PRIME to lock the ammonia and to get an AMMONIA filter.

Best I can tell you. What you posted about the Bio-Support is also what it says on the bottle.

So, I spent $45 yesterday on an EXPIRED KIT. Lovely!!!!
 
#64 · (Edited)
I contacted API.

800-847-0659

The lot number is the DATE OF MANUFACTURE. The kit is good for 3 years from that date.

I am good with the kit. We have to assume the 2 reading is correct.

Also, as a last resort, I can bring in a water sample to Big Als', I was just told, they will analyse it and tell me what to do!
 
#65 ·
I agree that if the Bio-Support is live bacteria, it can't hurt. Anyone who has read any of my posts on cycling new tanks knows that I emphatically encourage aquarists to use a biological supplement as one means of "seeding" a new tank with the necessary bacteria. My point was that this particular product may be causing the ammonia to rise. Neither the store clerks nor I know what is in that stuff, nor I suspect are they any more a chemist than I am, so none of us knows all that this will do in an aquarium when it interacts with the biological actions of live fish and numerous types of bacteria--so we are all surmising. As for continuing to add it after the tank is biologically established (cycled), that I do not agree with; dumping unnecessary stuff into an aquarium is not recommended, and if the aquarium is healthy and balanced it is completely unnecessary. And not knowing every component of this product, how do any of us know if there may be something in it that is not that safe in the long term? It is intended as a quick-start in new setups, not for continual use. And in an established aquarium, ammonia and nitrite will always be zero, without exception--unless something is done to upset the balance.

You asked the forum for assistance, I am trying to offer help. I suggest that the use of this product is one possibility for the rise in ammonia. In spite of its claim to reduce ammonia build up, ammonia is building up from something.

I am more inclined however to suspect the tank is not cycled. I think this is the more likely cause under the circumstances.

In my experience that test kit will be accurate for months; as I said, the kits I bought had expired, as I now understand the dating. But I intend to get this confirmed from API. Mine for pH (which is all I bother with now) appear to have expired last year and a couple months ago.

Byron.
 
#66 ·
OK, so I need a plan.

Should I do another water change? I can't see how this is good either, but I am a rookie here. Shouldn't it have a chance to "settle"?

The water, after the change this morning is now crystal. The slight murkiness is gone.

Fish still look fine, swimming around doing their thing. I am expecting to see them belly-up any minute!!!!! YIIIKES!! ;)

Should I run out to the store and get the ammonia pad added to my filter system like they recommended? I was told this works better than anything and lasts 3 months. I can also get the store to test the water and compare it to my results.
 
#67 ·
Sorry, I missed some of that before, my fault.

This is a planted tank, and plants need ammonium (which comes from ammonia) to grow. For this reason, I do not believe in using any product that "removes" ammonia. But having said that, most of such products do not remove it, they detoxify it by some means. Some actually do this by converting it into ammonium, which the plants would then use. In acidic water this occurs automatically, ammonia changes into ammonium. But your pH is 7.6 so a product that detoxifies ammonia is fine. However... [read on].

The fact that your fish are ding fine [and I do trust your observations] and the ammnia is reading 2 makes me think that it must be ammonium resulting from the biological product. Most test kits (you have the API if memory serve me correctly) read ammonia and ammonium as one, ammonia. So this may exlain why there are no ill effects. And if this is the case, forget the ammonia pads. The plants and the bacteria will handle this. Keep an eye open for the nitrite, although with healthy plants I would not expect to see much if anything with nitrite.

As for water changes, in a nutshell the more the better in most of our aquaria. In nature fish never remain in the same water for more than a second. Water in rivers, streams, even lakes is constantly moving past them, and their numbers in porportion to the volume of water is so minimal it is always fresh water. In a closed aquarium system we cannot hope to match this. All the filters in the world cannot come close to nature; no filter can remove urine and dissolved (liquified) solid waste, so the fish is always swimming in its own excrement, always. Only the partial water change dilutes this mess and provides fresh water. Filters can remove particulate matter and make the water crystal clear, but they cannot completely "clean" it because they can't remove these toxic substances. Plants and bacteria help, and if the fish load were minimal and the plants heavy, as in the days of old, the pwc would not be so critical. One author I recently read said this would work if we maintained 1 neon tetra to every 4 gallons of water in an aquarium that was heavily planted. So your 10g would hold 2 neons and nothing else, and be thick with plants--and no water change would be necessary.

This is why I and others here recomend a pwc once a week at the minimum, in average to heavily stocked aquaria. Discus keepers normally do a 50% water change every day; and Jack Whattley, an authority on discus, has often written of performing three or four such water changes every day in certain situations.

So, to answer your question, no, more pwc cannot hurt your fish. Just don't disturb the gravel or the filter media to avoid removing the bacteria you are trying to encourage.

To be honest, after going through all this agin with your information, I would leave things as they are. I would not use any more of the supplement. I would observe the fish, as you are, and at any sign of trouble do a pwc. But otherwise, do one every week (not disturbing the gravel or filter as previously mentioned).

I expect others like Twistersmom and AuntKymie are following this thread, so they can jump in if they have spotted something else.

Byron.
 
#68 · (Edited)
OK, I hear you. I will simply observe.

When I vacuum, I touch the gravel in the front and remove quite a bit of stuff from the top. I don't really move the gravel around, just set the vacuum on top and low and behold, it is the Star Trek, beam me up effect. Should I be leaving this alone?

I do this in the front of the tank. I leave the area around the plants alone. What ever happens there, stays there. So, is this method of vacuuming I am doing good or bad? Otherwise, I am not vacuuming per say but just siphoning off water. I do not mess with the filter at all. Sometimes, it loses water if I take the water level below the siphone. I turn it off, then refill it with tank water and power it up when I am through the PWC. Can't see any way around this other than to remove less water.

These 7 fish love to eat. I am now putting in two pinches with each feeding twice a day. I have cut back a bit but now they are agressive when I feed and clean up the food in an instant.

Question about plants. When is there TOO many plants? I was hoping to find another type as I like the planted look more than the junk we have in the tank. But, I believe you told me the two I have are enough.

Do you or someone else mind educating me on plants so I understand why I can't put in more?

Thanks

OH!!! before I forget, I was just vegging infront of the tank looking for potential "problems" and I noticed some algea on the glass!!!! Now what!? I can hear the claxons howling! It is just starting and barely noticable. This, I don't like!
 
#70 ·
OK, I hear you. I will simply observe.

When I vacuum, I touch the gravel in the front and remove quite a bit of stuff from the top. I don't really move the gravel around, just set the vacuum on top and low and behold, it is the Star Trek, beam me up effect. Should I be leaving this alone?

I do this in the front of the tank. I leave the area around the plants alone. What ever happens there, stays there. So, is this method of vacuuming I am doing good or bad? Otherwise, I am not vacuuming per say but just siphoning off water. I do not mess with the filter at all. Sometimes, it loses water if I take the water level below the siphone. I turn it off, then refill it with tank water and power it up when I am through the PWC. Can't see any way around this other than to remove less water.

These 7 fish love to eat. I am now putting in two pinches with each feeding twice a day. I have cut back a bit but now they are agressive when I feed and clean up the food in an instant.

Question about plants. When is there TOO many plants? I was hoping to find another type as I like the planted look more than the junk we have in the tank. But, I believe you told me the two I have are enough.

Do you or someone else mind educating me on plants so I understand why I can't put in more?

Thanks

OH!!! before I forget, I was just vegging infront of the tank looking for potential "problems" and I noticed some algea on the glass!!!! Now what!? I can hear the claxons howling! It is just starting and barely noticable. This, I don't like!
1077 has responded previously and we are saying the same thing; please understand, I not being arrogant, just that most of us have gone through these things and learned what works. Now to your questions.

First the gravel vacuuming, that is fine. I do much the same at every weekly pwc. My point on not disturbing it was meant for the cycling period. Bacteria is establishing itself by colonizing every surface in the tank--each grain of gravel, every plant leaf, the tank walls, filter tubes (inside and out), any wood or rocks, and of course the media inside the filter. It takes 2 to 8 weeks for the bacteria to establish itself from scratch at the numbers required to handle the available "food" now in the tank; the food is ammonia for nitrosomonas bacteria and nitrite for nitrospira/nitrobacter bacteria. Once the bacteria are established, they multiply fairly quickly if their specific food increases, and also they die off if it decreases. Once established, normal gravel vacuuming as you do will work fine.

Second, the filter. That's fine; what I meant here was not to clean or replace the media (the pads, material, whatever) for the same reason, encouraging the bacteria to colonize it. Once the tank is biologically established, regular filter maintenance should be rinsing the pads and whatever as needed to keep it free of particulate matter so the water easily flows through it. No need to replace the media until it literally falls apart (pad). As long as it is whole enough to trap particulate matter, and the water is flowing through it and not bypassing it, it is good. Weekly rinses or monthly will depend upon your filter, bioload, etc.

Third the plants. Biologically you can never have too many plants. I don't know how I may have suggested two were the limit, sorry, certainly didn't intend that impression. The number of plants is only limited by the water volume (tank space) and your individual wants. A thick jungle with no swimming room would not be much use with fish; but you can certainly add more than you have. I would suggest some rooted plants like swords. They are easy to grow, low maintenance (stay "as is" with no regular pruning or trimming like you need with cabomba) and will grow fine in any water that cabomba grows well in. My 90g and 115g Amazonian setups are full of several species of Echinodorus (swords), you may want to have a look and see if any appeal to you, I could tell you what they are and how large they grow, etc. Other suggestions are Sagitarria, Vallisneria [the smaller species, some of this grows quite large for a 10g), maybe floating plants, Java Moss on any wood or rock, etc. Here's a good site with plant information and photos: The Planted Tank - Articles, Forums, Pictures, Links Just click on "Plants" to see a photo list of species with information on each. If you want more info on particular species, this site is good: Plant Finder - Encyclopedia of Aquarium Plants You need to know the species name to find info.

Plants are the first and best filtration in an aquarium. They consume ammonia and probably nitrite, and the authorities say that they do this in greater quantity than the bacteria can if the tank is fairly heavily planted. That means very "clean" water for your fish. The filter then does the job of keeing the water "clear" by removing particulate matter. Together, they work to keep your aquarium healthy.

Byron.
 
#69 ·
Sound advice has been offered all around,I am at a loss as to ammonia readings and can only offer a couple observations I have made ,or expierienced, while trying to maintain water quality in a glass box.
Prime and tapwater should be all that is needed in nearly all tanks with the exception of those who alter their water to keep sensitive species or wild caught fish. No need for chlorine removing product if Prime is being used.
Forgive me if this has already been addressed,but I might test a sample of tapwater to see if ammonia is present.
There are many products out there that reportedly help boost the nitrification process and I suspect some of them may alter the chemistry of water and or test kit results. I believe ,In not adding anything to the aquarium that is not absolutely needed. In this way, I know without question what is in the water. Mileage varys with these products, and results in my view are not consistent. Again,the views I express are from my own expieriences and are only my opinion. I wish to detract from nor dismiss anyone else's opinion.
I might in this case do as has been suggested,stop with any and all products with the exception of a dechlorinator such as PRIME which will address the ammonia as well as chlorine,and chloramines.
I would also were it me,(and it ain't) reduce feedings to once a day and a smaller amount. This will quickly yield results . I might also reccommend that one ,and only one person, be designated to feed the fish. Have personally seen the affects of two or more family members feeding fish unbeknownst to the others. Hope some of this helps.
 
#71 ·
Byron, please, at no point have I considered anything you have said to be offensive in any way. No need to apologise for anything. Thank you for your continued help, and to everyone else who jumps in. I am grateful to all.

HEY! Guess what I have now.......SNAILS??? of some sort. Where did these things come from? I must have 6 of these whitish, small things stuck to the aquarium wall where I was starting to get some fuzz.

Is this OK?
 
#72 ·
Are these whitish small things moving, or stationary? B.
 
#74 ·
These little white things MOVE. Man, do they move. One minute, a cluster of 6 on one side, the next, you have to go look for them. They get around pretty quick for snails. And, they are very tiny and white.
Any chance of a photo? I doubt they are snails, more like planaria or something. Some of these things are completely harmless, fish will eat them; but there are some less desirable. I have no experience with these latter; perhaps someone who has can offer some advice.
 
#77 ·
Interesting, these are what I know as pond snails. According to the site I just checked [http://www.otocinclus.com/articles/snails.html] they are the same snail. I've brown ones, never seen white. If this is what they are, they won't do harm. Pond snails do not eat plants, but they will help clean up uneaten fish food and decaying lant material. The Malaysian livebearer snail burrows through the gravel, very handy. I like having snails in my aquaria.

Byron.
 
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