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Seachem Purigen ?

This is a discussion on Seachem Purigen ? within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Can't wait to hear the results. I just ordered a couple 100ml bags as well...one for my 75g planted tank and one for my ...

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Old 11-29-2011, 03:56 PM   #11
 
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Can't wait to hear the results. I just ordered a couple 100ml bags as well...one for my 75g planted tank and one for my 20g shrimp tank I just setup today.
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Old 11-30-2011, 12:34 PM   #12
 
The small size of the 100ml bag relative to my filter media chamber allowed too much water to flow around it so I turned it sideways and added the other 100ml bag beside it. Now nearly all water must flow through the Purigen bags. (Filter floss on top of the Purigen bags).
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Last edited by AbbeysDad; 11-30-2011 at 12:39 PM..
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Old 12-01-2011, 09:33 PM   #13
 
I no more than had this back in the filter running and it occurred to me that positioned where they were, the Purigen bags would effectively 'polish' water just before re-entering the tank, but wouldn't take full advantage of the AquaClear's refiltration. (Set to lower flow rates, the AC filters re-filter filtered water.).
With this in mind, I re-positioned the Purigen bags in between the two large AC sponges (as shown in the photo). This puts them at a position equal to the re-filtration holes. I may eventually have to cut an inch or so off a sponge so the bags sit just below the holes. For now, we'll let it run as is and see what happens.
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Old 12-02-2011, 10:05 PM   #14
 
It just occurred to me that I may have somewhat slightly compromised the experiment here.
Pursuant to another thread I have switched to what I believe to be higher quality fish foods. I am now using Omega One Freshwater Flakes and Almost Natural Tropical Flakes and Almost Natural Super Green Flakes.
These foods are made from fresh food grade fish which require little no starch (wheat, oat, soy flour) as binder/filler.
(I had previously been using a mixture prepared foods that for the most part were all fishmeal and rice, wheat, oat, or soy flour and/or gluten mixtures.)
I believe it's possible that fish food flakes with more flour binder/fillers may tend to cloud the water more than is the case now. This would result in more organics in suspension.
Also, maybe my imagination, but since switching to these higher quality foods, it seems to me my fish have less excrement than before. Perhaps these foods are easier to digest and the fish gets more nutrition with less waste?
Less waste would also mean less suspended organics in the water column.

Last edited by AbbeysDad; 12-02-2011 at 10:11 PM..
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Old 12-02-2011, 11:42 PM   #15
 
Be aware purigen does reduce the amount of ammonia produced in the tank, thus reducing what is available to the bacteria. I couldn't care what it does to my water clarity. I would never use a chemical or synthetic form of filter media like that. I see it as a hindrance to biofiltration. My water stays plenty clear with cheap sponges and filter floss. My filterless tank stayed just as clear as any other tank for about a year. Then something happened after I moved it. It got cloudy and all weird. Its still being weird. I'm pretty sure its some kinda microorganism thats doing it though. I've just been ignoring it lol.

Guess which water went through a filter and which didn't .





I honestly don't care for perfectly crystal clear water, though it happens quite often in my tanks. I view my tanks as little ecosystems in a box. That goes beyond fish and filter bacteria. I prefer there be a decent population of common harmless microorganisms in the tank. These are pretty much always present in tanks, but the amount can very a lot depending on filtration and what not. Abbeysdad if it makes any difference I use foods with high 'binders' if you want to refer to them as that. Wheat in some form is the first or second ingredient on all my foods. If it clouds water at all the microfauna will often consume that.
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Old 12-03-2011, 10:47 AM   #16
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikaila31 View Post
Be aware purigen does reduce the amount of ammonia produced in the tank, thus reducing what is available to the bacteria. I couldn't care what it does to my water clarity. I would never use a chemical or synthetic form of filter media like that. I see it as a hindrance to biofiltration. My water stays plenty clear with cheap sponges and filter floss. My filterless tank stayed just as clear as any other tank for about a year. Then something happened after I moved it. It got cloudy and all weird. Its still being weird. I'm pretty sure its some kinda microorganism thats doing it though. I've just been ignoring it lol.

I honestly don't care for perfectly crystal clear water, though it happens quite often in my tanks. I view my tanks as little ecosystems in a box. That goes beyond fish and filter bacteria. I prefer there be a decent population of common harmless microorganisms in the tank. These are pretty much always present in tanks, but the amount can very a lot depending on filtration and what not. Abbeysdad if it makes any difference I use foods with high 'binders' if you want to refer to them as that. Wheat in some form is the first or second ingredient on all my foods. If it clouds water at all the microfauna will often consume that.
In an established tank, I guess I'm not concerned with the reduction of ammonia, nitrites, nitrates - anymore than if I was to reduce the bio-load by less stock, better feeding, adding living plants, etc. The bacteria colony(ies) will just adjust accordingly.

Respectfully, I don't think your thinking this through regarding your perceived dislike of synthetic filter media. Sponge material, spun polyester filter floss, ceramic bio-media and plastic bio-balls are all synthetic materials. Everything inside and including your filter are synthetic.

Purigen is a synthetic polymer (aka PLASTIC resin pellets). I'm not certain of the exact polymer type as I purchased it in the bags - it looks like very small polyester resin pellets. I'm also uncertain what gives it the adsorbant properties to attract organic materials that are in solution. I don't believe it can be any kind of coating because it is regenerated in chlorine to 'burn off' the organic material it has trapped.
(actually as I looked at the sponges [previous photo] it was clear to me that to some degree I was already trapping organics from the water [notice the discoloration of the sponges]).

Back in the day, 30+ years ago, I used a Vortex diatom filter to periodically treat my many breeder and grow out tanks. After a few minutes micron filtered water was crystal clear, 'polished' to a degree better than the best fresh tap water or any other conventional filtration...but that whole process is cumbersome with a flow far to great to be continuous. (although a diatom filter running continuously in a sump would be slick!)

When you think of it, this process of removing dissolved organics from the water column is akin to the protein skimmer in the saltwater tank. I don't think removing organics in solution from the water column is a bad thing.

Now co-coincidentally, I was watching several underwater videos of the amazon river. It is a very murky mud hole with all manner of particles in the water. Some of our very worst display tanks are far better than the amazon river on a good day!
So we'll have to admit that we go overboard in filtration and lighting and aquascape to create the surreal more perfect display tank world - not really an accurate biotope. It's fun though! Frankly, I'd be pretty embarrassed to have a mud hole display tank in my living room .

I have to say, today is (yet to be done) water change day. I'm looking across into the other room about 20 feet away seeing the fish swim near the back of the tank - the water is so clear it's as though there is no water in there.
I'd rather not have a cloudy, murky display tank.

I don't wish to diminish the discussion in the other thread on the subject, however since you brought it up here...
With respect to fish foods, after extensive research I concluded quite clearly that foods that use fresh whole fish with little/no flour binder/fillers simply MUST be better for our fish. I learned long ago that feeding bread to birds was not good for the birds as the bread was merely empty calories for them.
I'm betting if we use fish foods made with fresh whole food grade fish instead of stale low quality fishmeals loaded with preservatives that contain copious amounts of rice, wheat, oat, soy flours and/or gluten binder/fillers we'll have healthier, happier fish. Stop feeding your fish bread for awhile and see what happens. The only thing you have to loose at most is less than a dollar cost difference for the container of food!

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Old 12-03-2011, 02:09 PM   #17
 
Okay, so during the water change I examined the filter and swapped out the upper sponge for a new one. In addition to the clear water I previously reported, it appears that the Purigen is working as the white Purigen bags I began using 4-5 days ago already appear tan in color.
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Old 12-03-2011, 04:33 PM   #18
 
Your confusing chemical media with bio media. They are simply not the same, both may be synthetically made. Yet Sponges/pads/ceramics are for the most part inert and function to simply provide area for biological colonization. The media itself does not absorb or breakdown anything. Purigen functions akin to carbon in the way that its there to actively absorb and retain compounds from the water thus inhibiting there further breakdown. How its different though is that it absorbs wastes that would produce ammonia thus reducing biofiltation capacity. I don't care for chemical filtration period. I never use it. I've had couple cups of activated carbon in my fish cabinet for years I see no good in using it.

seachems never nice enough to tell you exactly what their product are made of. Given its high absorbance for organics it makes sense that it is organic itself and probably hydrophobic. Its specific absorption is entirely based on its molecular structure. The addition of the chlorine causes the release of the absorbed organics possibly by directly or indirectly breaking the bond to the orgaincs. I would guess that it has higher affinity to the chlorine then to the organics. I would guess this because they require you to soak it in prime, which makes me think its grabbed the chlorine from the bleach.

I wasn't talking about cloudiness per say... its just I see a negative impact of excessive overfiltration and microfiltration many seem to think is necessary. Its simply that IMO you don't need it to maintain clarity and in the end fish don't really benefit from it any more then they would simple biological filtration. Yes organics always occur in the water, but many of them degrade or are broken down as well. Theres really no need to remove them in FW systems beyond water changes.

I'm not trying to recreate the amazon. I simply prefer a complete aquatic system. I like the fact that I can occasionally find 1/4" tetra and rainbow fry in my main tanks that have managed to survive and feed themselves. If you over filter, excessively clean, or polish the water it has a negative impact on the microorganisms present in all tanks. You can't see them but they are there and IMO their important as a number of my fish wouldn't be around today without them.

Thats why I enjoy my filterless tank just as much as my hi tech planted ones. The oversized canister filter keeps the big tank just as clear as the filterless tank naturally kept itself. The filterless one though maintains a ton more microorganisms. I'm still trying to catch one last tetra out of it, then I'm going to see how well rainbow fry do in there on their own without any major risk of predation. The overfiltered one maintains enough microorganisms for the lucky fry to survive but that requires a ton of plants to slow the current, stop surface movement, and provide refuge were the adult fish can't reach.

While the amazon may be cloudy many natural waters can be very clear. Lots of wild mexican livebearer and cichlid videos on youtube show surprisingly clear water for the number of fish .
is a good example. I would love this in a tank. The fish seem to contribute quite a bit to the murkiness. But what I really like is the behavior, not just fish swimming around until their next feeding, but actively interacting with their environment in their search for prey. There is a reason many fish come from cloudy waters though. Cloudy or murky waters are generally higher in productivity there are lots of food sources living in there thus lots of fish find it excellent habitat. A lot of murkiness in the wild is phytoplankton along with sediment and tannins. Really clear waters are often associated with low productivity and low phytoplankton thus not as many fish come from clear waters. Its eutrophic waters vs ogliotrophic and the range between them.

This is starting to go off topic lol. I'll dig up the food thread again lol.
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Old 12-03-2011, 07:26 PM   #19
 
You're confusing adsorption with absorption - there is a big difference. Perhaps the following will help:

"Adsorption is the adhesion of atoms, ions, biomolecules or molecules of gas, liquid, or dissolved solids to a surface.[1] This process creates a film of the adsorbate (the molecules or atoms being accumulated) on the surface of the adsorbent. It differs from absorption, in which a fluid permeates or is dissolved by a liquid or solid.[2] The term sorption encompasses both processes, while desorption is the reverse of adsorption. It is a surface phenomenon."

It is an ion exchange resin typically used to purify water.

Last edited by AbbeysDad; 12-03-2011 at 07:36 PM..
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Old 12-03-2011, 09:39 PM   #20
 
Since Mikaila brought it up, I should perhaps explain that I do not have a natural tank, but merely a natural looking display tank. This tank in no way attempts to be a biotope. The fish, rocks, gavel and sand are real, the plants are all plastic. The gravel/sand comes close to "deep sand bed", but not quite. One filter is filled with Seachem Matrix, the other Sponge, filter floss and now seachem purigen. The lighting is 2, F15/T8 18" 15w florescent, I believe 4100k (although not stamped). Fine for viewing, but insufficient for plants.

One day I may cross over to the plant side in this or another tank and shoot for a real, albeit low tech, biotope.

Last edited by AbbeysDad; 12-03-2011 at 09:43 PM..
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