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The Sad Truth About Your Fish Tank

5K views 28 replies 15 participants last post by  Misomie 
#1 ·
Reccently I switched jobs, and became a "In-Home" Nurse. I find the work much easier than being in a hospital - Anyways my new job has me go and visit and take care of people who would rather stay home. This puts me inside said persons home for up to 4-5 hours a day. I visit many people during my week, and in doing so I wittiness some rather upsetting household conditions. Due to my position I am unable to say anything, Unless it is life threatening to a client or a child.

However one house has a fish tank. Joy I thought to myself! But as I approached the 50 gallon tank, I noticed 3 fish were dead. Quickly I analyzed the tank and noticed there was at least 40+ Tetras, 6 clown loaches, 2 cobalt lobsters, severak bloodfins and such in this tank!

"Hey, looks like you got some dead fish in here hehe.... So how many fish do you have?" I asked.

"Yeah Hahaha! They died last night, were going to go get 10 more in the morning. that will give us about 80 something fish." Both family members answered "Let Me guess your going to tell us we have too many fish and our 'PH' is too high? Righ?" She asked me in a snap

I just looked at her an smiled and nodded slowly "Your fish will die off to make bio room to support whatcha got. And even then they wont be happy but they will be alive."

In just 4 weeks I wittnessed the entire tank die off and be re-stocked twice! Over the past 3 months Ive been able to get them in the habbit of changing their water once every 3 months all the way up to once every 2 weeks for 50% Thats not where id like it to be but its better than nothing.

Four months go by and still they are replacing a minimum of 15 fish a month - not a total extinction of their tank, but still too many. Every other day it seems there is always some mangled up body of what was left of a fish, stuck to the side of the filter where 3 other fish constantly pick at it and nibble at it.

Im not able to convince them to let 60+ fish go, or to give them away. But these people did make me realize why I am able to buy so many colors of fish so cheap and so many varieties to choose from.
You are able to buy these fish and fish tank accessories so cheap - because somewhere out there, there is a person who murders them all every week and must restock with new victims.
 
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#2 ·
Well that is certainly an upsetting rescue story. I have worked in animal rescue for years. Mostly dogs and horses so... I understand where you are coming from. Change is slow in these types of minds, but it sounds like you have eeked forward and least a tiny bit. Maybe in time, they will understand that they need to make changes to keep live fish. It is truly sad to think of all the horrors animals go through as our captives. Blessed are those who treat their animals with respect and kindness and may the others get an uncomfortable rash. Oops, I mean, I hope they will learn from their mistakes and grow a larger space for compassion within themselves.
 
#3 ·
That is a disgusting story, and sadly I am sure there are many many more situations like that out there, and not just with fish.

This is abuse, wether it is out of ignorance or not, it is abuse.

Fortunately, well I personally hope that the majority of us out there who keep fish 'captive' so so to speak are conscientious enough to educate ourselves, and caring enough to do the right thing.

We all make mistakes I am sure, I know I made a huge one recently! luckily no one died, but I nearly gave myself a heart attack with all the stress that it caused me! and we learn from these mistakes, but to continually do the same stupid stuff over and over.... that is unforgivable and if they are buying these fish from the same supplier then they are partly to blame too!

I have harped on about fish suppliers before, and won't continue here but someone should recognise the signs of trouble and at least step in and offer some sound advice when selling these people their replacement fish, rather than being blinded by the $$ signs in their eyes.

But life is life, and people are strange, like those that horde cats and live in piles of cat excrement, or dogs etc. its a mental illness and this kind of thing will always happen, and theres is nothing we can do about it. It is just a shame those poor animals who have no choice in the matter have to suffer. breaks my heart.

if they won't learn and change their ways I would report them to some humane society for animals...
 
#4 ·
at least step in and offer some sound advice when selling these people their replacement fish, rather than being blinded by the $$ signs in their eyes.
"Petco" during one visit a employee noticed the pattern and refused to sell them fish, after like 10 minutes of bickering a manager stepped in and car sold them some ph lowering bull crap and off we went
(But i couldnt say anything because of my scrubs I was standing there in xD)


if they won't learn and change their ways I would report them to some humane society for animals...
Due to the law "HIPPA" and some twisted insurance policies my hands and my lips are sealed and tied unless it was putting my client or anther human in mortal danger.
Other wise id mention something about one of my weekend clients drug using mother...
 
#5 ·
Good grief :shock: It is clear that they don't care about the well being of the fish and are just being selfish buying more and more to let them die off.

Kudos to you for getting them to take baby steps in tank maintenance. All you can do is keep trying to convince them that stocking less and maintaining more will be better for THEM since they don't care about the fish.
 
#6 ·
It is next to impossible to educate someone who thinks they know more than science does. We have had a few members here like that.
 
#7 ·
Not long ago, I was at a "Pet" store that claims to be very "Smart". I was there buying a new bubbler and air hose. While there, I overheard an older lady with her granddaughter talking with an associate and buying fish. She bought a South American Cichlid, two emerald/green cory, 2 Goldfish, a Clown Loach and a Koi fish. When asked what tanks (plural) she had, the older customer said "we have a 50 gallon in our living room. The associate asked if that was all, and the lady said yes in a stern voice. The associate (to her credit) tried to tell the lady that these fish don't mix and really tired to educate her. The customer would have none of it. She rudely said something to the effect of "just bag the fish". The the DIScredit of the associate, she bagged the fish. Another customer said something to the lady, but I couldn't hear what. She just raised her arm up in the air and walked away in anger. The same man went to the associate and asked her why she sold those fish to her. I didn't hear her response. I later talked to the man and he told me the associate said "we have to sell them anything they want to buy without question".

I honestly think people should have to obtain a license to own any fish. They should have to take a test and pass before getting said license. I also think the sale/ownership of fish should be HEAVILY regulated. That would mean all fish prices would rise, but fish abuse and idiot owners would decrease. Perhaps that's an overreaction, but as of right now that is what I feel.

At this same store, I always have to re-stack the Betta jars. The always put them one on top of the other, cutting off the air holes. Don't get me started on the poop-filled blue water.
 
#8 ·
This doesn't surprise me in the least, and I agree with you. I have kind of said similar things in a few posts a while ago, but came to the conclusion that there is not a lot we can do about it, other than follow in other members footsteps and try and educate, and pass on proper information to other people we may come across, here and in real life.

The lack of education regarding fish out there is utterly frightening, and only when delving into the hobby and doing some research does the full extent of what is required to keep fish healthily and humanely come to light.

unfortunately, because fish don't have big sad puppy dog eyes, or waggy tails, or have the ability to let you know they are unhappy. Some people seem to still have the opinion that....."oh its just a fish" they'll forget in a few seconds, I'll just flush it, ooopps another 5 dead fish this week, won't bother looking at why, lets just go get some more!

This is probably what the majority of irresponsible pet owners think about keeping fish, and the few (although these few are hundreds upon thousands strong) of us out there who actually care, and really want to do our best for these creatures must keep doing our best, and help others when we can.

Little story... I was in my LFS one day and a guy and his probably 12 yr old daughter are picking out a goldfish, and I see the guy lean into the store persons ear and ask him, which one of these last the longest? and that says about all I need to say about that...... how many have met a watery grave due to lack of knowledge? very sad.
 
#9 ·
[...] You are able to buy these fish and fish tank accessories so cheap - because somewhere out there, there is a person who murders them all every week and must restock with new victims.
Well said.

Makes me think of a friend of mine who drives me nuts. She consistently puts incompatible fish together in aquariums despite my pleading with her to stop. E.g., putting cold water and tropical fish together is her biggest crime against all things finned. *sigh* She'll buy a Pleco and put it in her (too small) goldfish tank and when it's dead three days later, buy another. Right now she's keeping goldfish with harlequin rasbora. I've told her how cruel this is, but it falls on deaf ears. Pisses me right off. I can't even discuss fish with her anymore. But so long as people can walk into a Petsmart and point to the fish they want, they'll get them.
 
#14 ·
Might I suggest reading Eating Animals, by Jonathan Safran Foer ?

While it is true that a lot of cruelty to fish is going on in the aquarium business, it's noting compared to what is happenning in the food industry. Remember the last fish you ate ? Shrimp ? Beef ? Chicken ? Pork ?...
 
#16 · (Edited)
Everyone here should watch this:
Dan Barber: How I fell in love with a fish | Video on TED.com

Along with that the over fishing in our seas is insane and I agree with Boise that compared to what is going on out there the personal aquariums are nothing.

CHICKEN....TO FISH....:twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::twisted::evil::evil::evil::evil::evil::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock::shock:

Everyone here has to also watch this insane stupid ignorant....omg. Just watch.


Just watch that documentary if you haven't already.
 
#17 ·
yes but you could go further and discuss the cruelty and inhumane treatment that is imparted on the civilians of certain parts of Africa, and the atrocities carried out on the sri-lankan's by their own government.... the list of cruelty at the hands of humans is endless.

This is a website and forum mostly to do with fish keeping, lets keep it in perspective.

I eat meat, but only free range, or outdoor bread. and I do not eat fish, but I agree wholeheartedly that our seas are totally over fished, and the bureaucracy that is involved is totally mindless. all the fishing quotas etc, if a vessel reaches its quota on one species be it cod say, and they have to keep fishing to meet the quota of some other species and they catch cod also, they have to throw the cod that is over quota back...dead. there is nothing wrong with it, they could sell it, and make good money, but no.... they have to throw it back into the sea dead. totally idiotic bureaucracy.
 
#20 ·
I 100% agree that "As far as nature cares life is certainly replaceable". Thing is, some things could and should be avoided.

As Dan Barber exposes in his video, we as humans are capable of a systemic view. We can understand a complex system, as complex as nature, or as complex as the human body. We understand how an action on our part will have consequences elsewere. The man who has the fish farm in the video knows that he can count on the predators to know how much fish he has. He also knows that creating a balanced and complex ecosystem will provide sustainable income, at that may be why he is doing all of this.

As you said Mikaila, thousands and thousands of fish die each year in the Amazon bassin. It's quite idiotic actually : the river floods, there is a lot of food, fish spawns, eat the food, spawns some more, and then the level in the river comes down and most of them die. The fact that the cycle of floods and drought are so predicatable makes this way of life so idiotic.

I find, when I look at the great aquaculture ponds out there, or at the great ranches, that we as human are making the same mistake as nature, only at a slower pace. We provide a lot of food and some space, we introduce fish/cattle, and they grow. We can then harvest them and put some more in. Food is plentiful for them. But what will happen when the river goes down ? What will happen when we cannot economically provide food for these animals ? They will die, and there will be nothing there.

If you have a systemic view, you can see how nature get's out of this problem. When the water goes down, land is exposed. Land animals come back, and feist on all those dead fish. The cycle continues, on an on, in a very sustainable way. Animals suffer, that is the way of nature.

But what will happen of all this land we now use to mass-produce fish, cattle, poultry, etc ? Nothing, there cannot be a cycle. The land is polluted, unsuitable for anything. It's not a sustainable cycle. And that we should be aware, and should fight to prevent, even more than animal cruelty. Because what is better : a world full of lush life and normal life/death cycle, or a world void of everything that lives ?
 
#22 · (Edited)
I find this statement quite interesting:
Animals suffer, that is the way of nature.
Karma, Knowledge and Wisdom. That's what that makes me think of.

Enlighten yourself and break the chain.

But what will happen of all this land we now use to mass-produce fish, cattle, poultry, etc ? Nothing, there cannot be a cycle. The land is polluted, unsuitable for anything. It's not a sustainable cycle. And that we should be aware, and should fight to prevent, even more than animal cruelty. Because what is better : a world full of lush life and normal life/death cycle, or a world void of everything that lives ?
Cattle Sollution - Grass Fed Cows
Fish Solution - The TED Video I posted

We just now have to find and support these people who use these methods so they can take over ;-)

and if you liked that Dan Barber video, check this one out. Just as amazing although doesn't deal with fish:
Dan Barber's foie gras parable | Video on TED.com

----

Going back to the original issue of fish keeping.

It seems in my mind that there are two main problems:

1 - The lack of knowledge possessed by the potential fish keepers
2 - The Pet Stores ability to sell and educate their customers on pets.

Mika made the greatest point:
Thats only happening because we want fish. If you buy local breed or "breeder quality" fish there is likely culling involved. Especially with things like the thialand bettas you see for sale online. Breeders don't raise every fry it would be too much effort. They cull constantly in the end being left with a handful of high end fry.
If the fish keepers (us) purchase our fish from breeders than the prices will go up on PetSmart and PetCo type dealers....wouldn't you think? That would be a long...hard...and very slow process....that would eventually make a change.


Nature may consider life replaceable, indifferent bloody mistress that she is. That doesn't mean we as people should be just as cold and uncaring. You can't stop people from eating meat, no more than you can stop people from keeping pets. What you can do though is try to stomp out unnecessary willful (or by ignorance) cruelty.

That's all I can say in a thread like this. Every step you take as a person tends to have blood on your hands somewhere. Even being a full out vegan puts animal blood on your hands. What you can you do? Do your research, make choices that matter, and educate people to become better people and better caretakers of the only planet we have.
A slow and long process that we will never give up on Sang. I agree.

---

Edit:

I think its people like Tapil that make a difference in the world Today. People who see a problem and are patient with it. They are motivated to make a change and go about doing so in a slow way that will work.

We can all do our part and I want to thank everyone here for sharing all they know and what they have experienced. It has really shed light on many new facts and ideas that I cannot thank you all enough for it.
 
#21 ·
Nature may consider life replaceable, indifferent bloody mistress that she is. That doesn't mean we as people should be just as cold and uncaring. You can't stop people from eating meat, no more than you can stop people from keeping pets. What you can do though is try to stomp out unnecessary willful (or by ignorance) cruelty.

That's all I can say in a thread like this. Every step you take as a person tends to have blood on your hands somewhere. Even being a full out vegan puts animal blood on your hands. What you can you do? Do your research, make choices that matter, and educate people to become better people and better caretakers of the only planet we have.
 
#23 ·
I really don't want to focus on other animals like beef in this thread as thats going off topic. I will simply state while grass feed is better for the cow I don't see it better for the world as a whole. Its a viable option for those that can afford the extra cost, but its not for the major public. You need alot of land for grazing, much of which was originally forests. Tearing down the forests for pasture displaces all the animals that lived there. Feed lots are high and fast gain in a small area, which the ever growing population is pretty dependent on. I personally don't eat beef very often, I'm for more sustainable less impact food sources. Regardless of where a cow comes from it has a pretty high input compared to other options I find tastier like chicken and fish. Not to mention how expensive it is in comparison.

My view on agriculture might be somewhat skewed though as I do come from a very agricultural university, which owns a number of farms and has a meat processing/slaughter facility on campus. There is a ton of science behind those places.

So what is the answer then? do we bandage those bleeding hearts, and just accept idiotic owners, inhumane shipment conditions, stressful containment in over stocked store tanks, and ultimately being poisoned by their own waste, when we start to neglect the water changes. is there anything we can do? other than not keep fish?
All depends on your view. I've been in this hobby for quite a few years. I personally accept most of what you typed. Idiotic owners will be idiotic and IMO there is no wasting breath on them or their fish. If someone whats advice then by all means I'll give them advice, however it they want to do things their way then I'm fine with letting them. I've seen tons of horribly kept tanks over the years. If the owner doesn't want to fix it, then oh well IMO. They are their fish, not mine. I can sarcastically wish them luck and move on.

I agree that most newbies lack education, however I don't see how that in any way falls to the pet store. The stores point is to sell fish not teach you about them. IMO it lies completely and fully on the new owner if they lack the knowledge to look into a pet before buying it. Just like a dealership is there to sell you cars not make sure you maintain know how to maintain them properly.

I don't really see how culling is much different then all the uneducated killing of fish. Its simply the difference between intentional and unintentional killing. However one or the other must happen. Even if everyone took good care of fish the result would be an increase in culling. You can expect care to be given to every guppy fry born in a tank, its simply impossible. Even within the hobby its considered okay to sell them to stores, where there chances of finding good homes are slim. Its also perfectly okay to just feed them to another fish and avoid the trouble of growing them out. The general consensus in this hobby is fish are replaceable because in truth they are.

I don't find the hobby abusive. Yes fish are kept in a glass box. If you analyze it from a human perspective its considered abusive. Analyze it from the fishes perspective and it doesn't perceive that it is in a glass box when it should be in a lake or river half way around the world. If fish keeping is abusive then so is the keeping of any other pet. However is it less or more abusive then nature?
 
#24 ·
I agree that most newbies lack education, however I don't see how that in any way falls to the pet store. The stores point is to sell fish not teach you about them. IMO it lies completely and fully on the new owner if they lack the knowledge to look into a pet before buying it. Just like a dealership is there to sell you cars not make sure you maintain know how to maintain them properly.
I just want to say that the difference is that the pet store is selling you a live creature. We don't have organizations for mal treatment of cars.

The thing is that Corporations are treating animals inhumanly, as you so very well put it, and could do a MUCH better job.

I agree 100% that it is up to the owner to educate themselves before getting the pet.
 
#25 ·
Thanks for your reasoning, it does make sense to me. and what you say is right.

You will have to forgive my naivety, as you can probably guess I am fairly new to the hobby and learning lots, all of the time! I guess I never really considered anything to do with fish or fish keeping until I started researching online and visiting this forum etc.

My personal point I made about the pet stores being in some way responsible, was to do with the moral dilemma of what do you do if you see the same crazy old woman coming in every week to buy new fish, because the others have died. I personally would want to step in a say something (whether that information would be appreciated or not is another matter) that was my knee-jerk reaction, and I still would think that way. Ultimately it would be like you say a waste of my breath, and probably fall on deaf ears. its a loose loose situation, if you sell more fish, and keep your mouth shut you know the fish are going to an idiot, if you refuse to sell them then the idiot goes elsewhere and still gets the fish anyway... futile.

This thread has gotten rather deep, and we're not going to save the world or stop idiots killing fish.

Your right about the viewing things from a human perspective rather than from the fish's perspective. I guess thats where we are falling down, millions upon millions of fish will live and die in their natural environments regardless of what the pet industry is doing. At least fish that are kept in captivity, the ones that survive the transit and store tanks might get the chance to live a fairly natural life in a tank of an educated aquarist, and those that don't... well they were going to die anyway, either by being part of the food chain, or when the rivers dry up or whatever natural selection takes place.

I still feel sorry for any animal that has to suffer, or die unnecessarily, even in the wild I feel sorry for the gazelles being hunted down by the lions etc.. soft at heart. (yes I eat meat, not much, and I dislike that an animal has to die for me to eat its flesh)

But I thank you for providing a different approach to thinking regarding this subject.
cheers
Simon
 
#26 ·
My personal point I made about the pet stores being in some way responsible, was to do with the moral dilemma of what do you do if you see the same crazy old woman coming in every week to buy new fish, because the others have died. I personally would want to step in a say something (whether that information would be appreciated or not is another matter) that was my knee-jerk reaction, and I still would think that way. Ultimately it would be like you say a waste of my breath, and probably fall on deaf ears. its a loose loose situation, if you sell more fish, and keep your mouth shut you know the fish are going to an idiot, if you refuse to sell them then the idiot goes elsewhere and still gets the fish anyway... futile.
Most of the shops I use offer pretty good advice if you want it. I've seen both good and bad shops sell fish into tanks were their survival is unlikely. I've seen and had shops refuse any guarantee on fish if they expect the fish to die. The good shops give a warning to the customers. I have a local one I don't like or buy from that will not offer any guarantee on fish going to a new tank, but they won't tell you are cycling either, but they have pretty bad stock to start from. But its not really to encourage proper fish care, its more so that the shop doesn't loose money on a bunch of fish that the owner killed. But it does indirectly encourage people to at least keep their fish alive.
 
#27 ·
Years ago when I first started the hobby, I was stopped from making an uninformed and just lain stupid mistake.

I went to buy a 10 gallon starter kit to begin my fish keeping. I had the kit, food and chemicals in my cart and then went to buy the fish. The associate came to me and asked if she could help. I told her the fish I wanted. She looked at my cart and asked if I was going to put them in that tank. I said yes. She then informed me to set the tank up first and wait a few weeks. She gave me a handout about cycling and fish care. She then told me to come back in a few weeks with a sample of my water before she would allow me to buy the fish. Thank goodness for her. If she would have been like most fish store employees, she would have bagged the fish for me that day without care or concern.

I'm far from an expert, and like most I learn something new every day.

You know, they make you get a license and learn regulations before they allow you to fish in most places. Too bad the same isn't true for fish keeping hobbyists like us. Just my 2 cents. I don't think taking an short online class/test and forking over a $10 fee for a license to keep fish is asking to much.
 
#28 ·
The origional post was a true horror story

Personally i look after my lil friends better than i do myself! The current aquarium is my 1st since moving back to the city i grew up in (origionally had 1 before leaving to work away for 12 years).

My stepdad also has an aquarium, he would do regular water changes and vacuum the gravel but then put in water without dechlorinating it, from tap to tank! Also had only artificial plants in it, sadlly tho he would lose a fish a week on average and wonder why?

Since iv had mine up and running tho hes taken a far greater interest in better up keeping, now dechlorinates the water, got live plants and his fish are thriving! It took alot of nagging and parcels turning up on his dorstep of chemicals and the such, i supply him with decent fish food as part of the deal as a sweetener and also test his perameters and they are perfect!! As a reward iv also started him off with a small colony of crs and they to are thriving!

Next step is my brother, his aquarium is all artificial altho he does do the right things for water quality i must bring him round to the benfits of live plants.He also is going to have a starter colony of crs to encourage his efforts

I guess if everyone spends a little time with friends or relatives that has aquaria to guide them in a good direction stories like the 1 that started this thread will be a thing of the past, but hey theres always someone that thinks they know better and wont change there habbits!
 
#29 ·
I was visiting my friend and her family has had this fantail goldfish in a five gallon tops tank for several years now. :/ I have always been hinting at upgrading the tank and they finally did (to a 10 gal). I know that one of the members wants a lrage tank so I can only hope this happens soon. :/

The worst part? They want to add fish with the fantail into the 10 gal... I sacrificed my homework tim to accopmany them to the pet store with a water sample. I then did my best job to point out the diseases and dead fish in the tanks (being a chain store) and telling them which fish would get too big. I managed to get them to hold back because of making the disease noticable and having them learn that their uncylced tank has ammonia in it. T_T

If I didn't go with them I wonder what they would have come with... (they were pointing out Bala Sharks, large goldfish breeds, ect. Basically anything that wouldn't fit in their tank)

Since they still wanted fish I made up a list of fish for micro tanks that should fit in with the tempermate of their fish and parameters of the tank. :/ The other day I also informed them that the light on the tank needs to be turned off at night... My brother (who I just started teaching on how to care for my fish when I'm away) knows more about them than they do. (he's seven....)
 
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