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The Sad Truth About Your Fish Tank

This is a discussion on The Sad Truth About Your Fish Tank within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Originally Posted by rhymon78 The lack of education regarding fish out there is utterly frightening, and only when delving into the hobby and doing ...

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The Sad Truth About Your Fish Tank
Old 05-07-2012, 10:17 PM   #11
 
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Originally Posted by rhymon78 View Post
The lack of education regarding fish out there is utterly frightening, and only when delving into the hobby and doing some research does the full extent of what is required to keep fish healthily and humanely come to light.
This is completely true. I think if more people researched this hobby (like you would before buying a new puppy or kitten) there would be a lot less fishkeepers around. I almost wonder if pet stores thrive on spreading misinformation like how goldfish and betta can live in bowls and fractions of a gallon. Don't get me started on goldfish care. Every time I see goldfish on the cover of a 5 or 3 gallon tank I want to punch something.

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Originally Posted by rhymon78 View Post
unfortunately, because fish don't have big sad puppy dog eyes, or waggy tails, or have the ability to let you know they are unhappy. Some people seem to still have the opinion that....."oh its just a fish" they'll forget in a few seconds, I'll just flush it, ooopps another 5 dead fish this week, won't bother looking at why, lets just go get some more!
I hate that disposable sentiment. There are also people who carry that over to mammals and reptiles, too. It boils my blood. Life isn't disposable. But I have to wonder if that comes from the consumerist society we now live in. If it's broken, throw it out and get a new one. If it gets sick, throw it out and get a new one.

Tapil, I applaud you for your gentle education. As Romad said, make it about them instead of the fish (because they don't care about the "living decor" [this phrase also boils my blood] in their den). I wish I had your patience to deal with things like this. I gladly educate those who want the best, but once someone pulls that "it's just a fish" I have trouble keeping my calm.
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:40 AM   #12
 
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Very good post! That is a very interesting story, and very true!
It also touches on the IQ of some people, a complete joke and waste of air. You did point out the positives, cheaper Petsmart fish for all.
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:14 AM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by Stormfish View Post
Don't get me started on those tiny kits they call "Goldfish" tanks. Incredible how few people know that a Goldfish can live up to 30 years. They're seen as disposable. Keep it in a bowl, flush it within the year. Breaks my heart.


I know, I have been in the petstore on a few occasions now when a teacher was buying fish for a classroom. When I asked "what do you do with the fish at the end of the school year?" one happily told me they give them to the kids" the other "flush them, they are pretty cheap" The one who said "We give them to the kids," I asked "Are the parents prepared for fish at home." She said "we send home a note."

Yeah, I am sure every one of those kids who WANT a fish give the parents a note and make sure the parents buy a 75 gallon tank to house their fish and of course they all have the tank cycled and ready when the fish comes home.

I knew I couldn't talk them out of goldfish but I did try to re direct them to male Guppies as they are just as colorful, much shorter lived and easier to care for as far as tank requirements. Either way, it is just too sad for words.
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:07 PM   #14
 
Might I suggest reading Eating Animals, by Jonathan Safran Foer ?

While it is true that a lot of cruelty to fish is going on in the aquarium business, it's noting compared to what is happenning in the food industry. Remember the last fish you ate ? Shrimp ? Beef ? Chicken ? Pork ?...
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:16 PM   #15
 
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Wow....I am in shock.

This thread.

Omg....
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:23 PM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by Boise1024 View Post
Might I suggest reading Eating Animals, by Jonathan Safran Foer ?

While it is true that a lot of cruelty to fish is going on in the aquarium business, it's noting compared to what is happenning in the food industry. Remember the last fish you ate ? Shrimp ? Beef ? Chicken ? Pork ?...
Everyone here should watch this:
Dan Barber: How I fell in love with a fish | Video on TED.com

Along with that the over fishing in our seas is insane and I agree with Boise that compared to what is going on out there the personal aquariums are nothing.

CHICKEN....TO FISH....:twist ed::sh ock::sho ck:

Everyone here has to also watch this insane stupid ignorant....omg. Just watch.

Just watch that documentary if you haven't already.

Last edited by Termato; 05-08-2012 at 01:33 PM..
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:38 PM   #17
 
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yes but you could go further and discuss the cruelty and inhumane treatment that is imparted on the civilians of certain parts of Africa, and the atrocities carried out on the sri-lankan's by their own government.... the list of cruelty at the hands of humans is endless.

This is a website and forum mostly to do with fish keeping, lets keep it in perspective.

I eat meat, but only free range, or outdoor bread. and I do not eat fish, but I agree wholeheartedly that our seas are totally over fished, and the bureaucracy that is involved is totally mindless. all the fishing quotas etc, if a vessel reaches its quota on one species be it cod say, and they have to keep fishing to meet the quota of some other species and they catch cod also, they have to throw the cod that is over quota back...dead. there is nothing wrong with it, they could sell it, and make good money, but no.... they have to throw it back into the sea dead. totally idiotic bureaucracy.
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:03 PM   #18
 
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Might I suggest reading Eating Animals, by Jonathan Safran Foer ?

While it is true that a lot of cruelty to fish is going on in the aquarium business, it's noting compared to what is happenning in the food industry. Remember the last fish you ate ? Shrimp ? Beef ? Chicken ? Pork ?...
I disagree with that, but I disagree with a lot of things. The world is cruel and unfair life consumes and get consumed. This thread makes me role my eyes, I tried to avoid it at first but some of the responses here seem completely blind to me. You think anyone in this hobby can be 100% without guilt of 'mistreatment" then you are wrong. Yes many fish die in uneducated hands. How many more do you think die in shipment for anyone to get them on their way to a wholesaler or petshop? How more many die in shops just for you to get some? The simple act of buying fish from a shop means there was some death and mistreatment involved. Sure you may not be killing them in uncared for tanks but you can't be blameless for the ones that die in cramped bags while being trucked around the country. Thats only happening because we want fish. If you buy local breed or "breeder quality" fish there is likely culling involved. Especially with things like the thialand bettas you see for sale online. Breeders don't raise every fry it would be too much effort. They cull constantly in the end being left with a handful of high end fry.

On top of that not all fish in captivity can survive period. That is just wishful thinking. The fry survival rate is better for farmed fish then in the wild but there still must be mortality. Honestly think of how quickly problems would develop if every single fry survived. It can't happen period. There needs to be mortality or culling somewhere along the line. You may not like it but its life. Just like not every cat and dog can survive to old age. Far to many are being produced. While yes we can sorta control those numbers its not as easy with fish unless you just make sure they are too unhappy to breed. Which counters your argument and with something like a guppy even that would be a challenge.

Compared to the wild fish in captivity still have longer and higher chances for living a good life. They are constantly trying to stay alive in the wild. In the Amazon hundreds of thousands of fish die every year just because of the dry season, natures way of culling. I'm not sure which is the lesser death being burned by ammonia in a glass box or suffering for weeks in a pond as it slowly dries up, with low oxygen, and predators all around. As far as nature cares life is certainly replaceable.
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:25 PM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by Mikaila31 View Post
I disagree with that, but I disagree with a lot of things. The world is cruel and unfair life consumes and get consumed. This thread makes me role my eyes, I tried to avoid it at first but some of the responses here seem completely blind to me. You think anyone in this hobby can be 100% without guilt of 'mistreatment" then you are wrong. Yes many fish die in uneducated hands. How many more do you think die in shipment for anyone to get them on their way to a wholesaler or petshop? How more many die in shops just for you to get some? The simple act of buying fish from a shop means there was some death and mistreatment involved. Sure you may not be killing them in uncared for tanks but you can't be blameless for the ones that die in cramped bags while being trucked around the country. Thats only happening because we want fish. If you buy local breed or "breeder quality" fish there is likely culling involved. Especially with things like the thialand bettas you see for sale online. Breeders don't raise every fry it would be too much effort. They cull constantly in the end being left with a handful of high end fry.

On top of that not all fish in captivity can survive period. That is just wishful thinking. The fry survival rate is better for farmed fish then in the wild but there still must be mortality. Honestly think of how quickly problems would develop if every single fry survived. It can't happen period. There needs to be mortality or culling somewhere along the line. You may not like it but its life. Just like not every cat and dog can survive to old age. Far to many are being produced. While yes we can sorta control those numbers its not as easy with fish unless you just make sure they are too unhappy to breed. Which counters your argument and with something like a guppy even that would be a challenge.

Compared to the wild fish in captivity still have longer and higher chances for living a good life. They are constantly trying to stay alive in the wild. In the Amazon hundreds of thousands of fish die every year just because of the dry season, natures way of culling. I'm not sure which is the lesser death being burned by ammonia in a glass box or suffering for weeks in a pond as it slowly dries up, with low oxygen, and predators all around. As far as nature cares life is certainly replaceable.
Very true. It is like anything, if there is demand, there will be abuse. Right across the board.

What is sad to me, is that the more I learn about the hobby the more the rose tinted glasses disappear, and the harsh reality of fish keeping becomes blindingly obvious.

At the end of the day we keep animals, like you say, in a glass box for our enjoyment. this in itself if you analyse it enough, is abusive.

So what is the answer then? do we bandage those bleeding hearts, and just accept idiotic owners, inhumane shipment conditions, stressful containment in over stocked store tanks, and ultimately being poisoned by their own waste, when we start to neglect the water changes. is there anything we can do? other than not keep fish?

I am genuinely interested, and am not being facetious. I value your opinion, as I actually agree with you.

thanks
simon
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:26 PM   #20
 
I 100% agree that "As far as nature cares life is certainly replaceable". Thing is, some things could and should be avoided.

As Dan Barber exposes in his video, we as humans are capable of a systemic view. We can understand a complex system, as complex as nature, or as complex as the human body. We understand how an action on our part will have consequences elsewere. The man who has the fish farm in the video knows that he can count on the predators to know how much fish he has. He also knows that creating a balanced and complex ecosystem will provide sustainable income, at that may be why he is doing all of this.

As you said Mikaila, thousands and thousands of fish die each year in the Amazon bassin. It's quite idiotic actually : the river floods, there is a lot of food, fish spawns, eat the food, spawns some more, and then the level in the river comes down and most of them die. The fact that the cycle of floods and drought are so predicatable makes this way of life so idiotic.

I find, when I look at the great aquaculture ponds out there, or at the great ranches, that we as human are making the same mistake as nature, only at a slower pace. We provide a lot of food and some space, we introduce fish/cattle, and they grow. We can then harvest them and put some more in. Food is plentiful for them. But what will happen when the river goes down ? What will happen when we cannot economically provide food for these animals ? They will die, and there will be nothing there.

If you have a systemic view, you can see how nature get's out of this problem. When the water goes down, land is exposed. Land animals come back, and feist on all those dead fish. The cycle continues, on an on, in a very sustainable way. Animals suffer, that is the way of nature.

But what will happen of all this land we now use to mass-produce fish, cattle, poultry, etc ? Nothing, there cannot be a cycle. The land is polluted, unsuitable for anything. It's not a sustainable cycle. And that we should be aware, and should fight to prevent, even more than animal cruelty. Because what is better : a world full of lush life and normal life/death cycle, or a world void of everything that lives ?
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