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Problem with water?

This is a discussion on Problem with water? within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> As requested, ive just tested the ph of the tank and the tap water, both are 6.0 There is only 2 keys to the ...

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Old 04-18-2010, 12:15 PM   #11
 
As requested, ive just tested the ph of the tank and the tap water, both are 6.0

There is only 2 keys to the house, me and the wife, so its doubtfull its that
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Old 04-19-2010, 01:17 AM   #12
 
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Considering that the tank has been running for two years ?? with no problems ,and assuming (always a bad thing) that regular weekly water changes are being performed, My thoughts lie with Byrons in that perhaps,,,something was suddenly added to the source water or water in the tank ,to cause sudden death of fish.
Many water companies will on occasion, change the formula for treating water. Sometimes flushing the lines with a larger chlorine content, sometimes adding chloramine (chlorine and ammonia). They sometimes do this once or twice a year as I also discovered the hard way. It would require perhaps a larger dose of water conditioner and I would want one that clearly said that it dealt with chlorine,chloramines,and AMMONIA. Nutrafin Aqua plus would work well for chlorine but would do nothing to remove ammonia found in chloramines if these were present. The conditioner (Nutrafin), would detoxify chlorine from chloramines but leave the ammonia for the biological filter to process. With small water changes,and healthy biological filter,the ammonia may present little problems but for peace of mind,,, I would want to use a conditioner such as PRIME that clearly states on the bottle, that it removes or detoxifies AMMONIA. Not all water conditioners do.
The fact that you detect chlorine smell could be indicator that water company has increased the chlorine levels as mentioned ,or perhaps water conditioner was forgot when changing the water. I have six tanks presently ,and change 50 percent of the water every four or five days to a week. Recently, I forgot whether I had added conditioner to the tank during water change . I had already changed the water in five tanks, and could not remember whether I had added the proper amount of conditioner to the last tank and rather than add more(should have),, I chose to believe I had ,for it was unlikely that I would have forgotten. Within 24 hours,I lost a whole tank of guppies,lesson learned,
I would also submit that sometimes we can get too aggressive with cleaning filter material ,or perhaps replacing filter material . Most of the good bacteria needed to breakdown toxins such as ammonia and nitrites are found in the filter material. If we clean this material with tapwater that contains chlorine or chloramines,, we destroy a portion of the bacteria needed for that is why the chlorine exists in our tapwater.
Always best to clean the material in dechlorinated water or old aquarium water that we draw out during water changes each week, and clean perhaps half the material at any one time and the other half the following week.
Replacing all of the material at once will also remove a considerable portion of this bacteria as well, and until it can once again, develop in large numbers,,, there would be little to process the waste (ammonia) created by the fish. One might see a sudden cloudiness in this instance as new bacteria begins to develop slowly and water changes might need to be more frequent than usual.
Other causes for cloudiness could be from over feeding, overstocking,or under filtered tank, along with filter that is in need of service such as cleaning the material as mentioned with dechlorinated water ,or old tank water that you remove during water changes each week.
Perhaps someting else to consider, is anything that may, or may not come in contact with the surface of the water. Hairspray,deodorants,air fresheners,room deodorizers,paint fumes,pesticides,etc. These could also cause death to otherwise healthy system.
I am sorry you lost fish and hope something I or others have mentioned, may help you to discover the source of the apparently sudden problem.
Again, for my own comfort,, I would seriously consider a full function water conditioner such as PRIME or AMQUEL +,, and I would not add anything else to the water other than one of these two products. No pH up or down products,no stress this or that,no water clear formulas, etc,etc,. Makes it much easier to fix problems when you know exactly what is in the water and what it does.
One final thought ,I might check the heater to see that it is operating correctly and that during water changes ,,that it is submerged during the changes if it is indeed a submersible type. These can sometimes become damaged and have on occasion been reported to allow stray voltage to in effect,, electrocute the fish outright, or slowly produce stray voltage at different times over a period of days until fish succumb.
Hope some of this helps you or others and again,, I'm sorry you lost fish.

Last edited by 1077; 04-19-2010 at 01:24 AM..
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Old 04-19-2010, 11:12 AM   #13
 
Many thanks for your reply

In the past and in the future ive allways cleaned the pump and pump houseing, media etc in a bucket filled with water from the tank

I will try and locate some of these products you mention, do you possibly have a direct link for these products from a supplier that you trust?

Im now more leaning to the fact the water company might have added some extra things to the water, unware to myself, Ive never missed a dose of water treatment yet, its all on done on my computer in a spreadsheet format

Many thanks again for your reply
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Old 04-19-2010, 11:50 AM   #14
 
Why not phone or otherwise contact the water company and ask.
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:33 AM   #15
 
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1077 said almost everything I could think to say. Thank you 1077.

There is one thing I'd like to add to the discussion, though... and that is the reason behind chemical changes in the water supply, so you can watch for that in the future.

Change of season is the most common time to see this in a municipal water supply. As our weather changes, the chemicals needed to keep our water safe for human consumption also changes. That is a common practice around the world, and one that many people don't consider when using tap water in an aquarium. Anytime there is a fluctuation of weather patterns, but most especially at change of season, expect that the chemicals added to your water will change accordingly.

One way to help safeguard yourself from the chlorine/chloramines content is to let your tap water sit for a number of hours (or a day) before using it, and this after using your water conditioner in it. Chlorine will evaporate if given time, which will help to work with water conditioner to make your water safe for your aquariums. When extra chemicals have been used to treat the water, this will actually help to make up for extra dosing of water conditioners that may be needed without knowledge. It also helps to avoid overdosing of water conditioner, which can also cause major issues in an aquarium.

And, yet one other option is to use bottled water as part of your clean water supply, thus thinning the chemical content in the tap water, allowing the conditioner to better do its job.

The other thing I can suggest for you to try is to keep the water changes smaller during those times. The less you change at a time, if increased in frequency, the easier it is to control the fluctuations and extremes that these levels can cause. A 10% change each day for 5 days is safer than a 50% change in one day at end of a week. I tell you this because you still have other aquariums to worry about... and this may offer you an option that could protect your other fish from the same fate.

I agree with the others that if you can noticeably smell chlorine in the water... that is the most likely cause of your issue.

I noticed there has already been mentioned about chlorine and bacteria cultures in the tank... chlorine will instantly kill any bacteria it comes into contact with. That means if there was very heavy chlorine in the water you added to the tank, it may have depleted your bacteria culture... and what many people forget is that massive die off of bacteria culture can pollute the water just as quickly as any other extreme overload of waste. (so its not just another cycle you have to worry about) That is one of the dangers in using BioSpira, a bacteria product meant to help instantly cycle an aquarium. Many people have used that product and been completely baffled when everything in the tank dies... and that is the cause. So in your situation, heavy chlorine going into the tank, enough to wipe out an entire established bacteria culture, can quickly raise ammonia to lethal levels, and deplete the tank water of needed oxygen, thus causing a rapid and massive die off as you stated happened.

It would be hard to test for such a thing so long after the fact, especially after all those fish died in the tank and were in there long enough to further pollute the water, but its something you should always keep in mind. The smaller more frequent water changes can also help eliminate this problem, too. In the other tank where your water has already been regularly dosed with conditioner, a small change with the proper amount of conditioner should keep you safe as that water all mixes together, as it will dilute the chlorine quickly before it has a chance to do so much damage.

Watch your water tests closely for a while, both before and after any water changes. You may find you need to purchase some bottled water for a while to help keep your water conditions aquarium safe.

Best of luck to you!
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:38 AM   #16
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riksworld View Post
Many thanks for your reply

In the past and in the future ive allways cleaned the pump and pump houseing, media etc in a bucket filled with water from the tank

I will try and locate some of these products you mention, do you possibly have a direct link for these products from a supplier that you trust?

Im now more leaning to the fact the water company might have added some extra things to the water, unware to myself, Ive never missed a dose of water treatment yet, its all on done on my computer in a spreadsheet format

Many thanks again for your reply

If you have a local fish store or perhaps a Petco near you they may carry either PRIME or Amquel+.
www.DrsFosterSmith is a trusted source as well.
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Old 04-20-2010, 06:04 AM   #17
 
Many thanks to everyone who has responed to my plight, as you can imagine its been hard loseing these fish

Im going out later to buy a big water bucket, probally like a water bucket, which can hold around 50 ltrs of water, so I can keep that full of water 24 - 48 hrs before I do a water change and treat it with the water treatment as said on here, sadly my local fish shop does not sell either of these products, so its looking like a on-line retailer job

I will fill tub of water with around 50 ltrs of water, treat it, then let stand for a god day and then test it with my test kit and see the result, might even run a air pump in there to ster it up a little, once this has been done, I will then pump it back to the aqurium ready for the water change, would it be wise to heat the water at same time its in this container so its the same temp, this should stop temp differnece happening?

Anyone see any issue with this idea?

Thanks everyone, been a great help
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:16 AM   #18
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riksworld View Post
Many thanks to everyone who has responed to my plight, as you can imagine its been hard loseing these fish

Im going out later to buy a big water bucket, probally like a water bucket, which can hold around 50 ltrs of water, so I can keep that full of water 24 - 48 hrs before I do a water change and treat it with the water treatment as said on here, sadly my local fish shop does not sell either of these products, so its looking like a on-line retailer job

I will fill tub of water with around 50 ltrs of water, treat it, then let stand for a god day and then test it with my test kit and see the result, might even run a air pump in there to ster it up a little, once this has been done, I will then pump it back to the aqurium ready for the water change, would it be wise to heat the water at same time its in this container so its the same temp, this should stop temp differnece happening?

Anyone see any issue with this idea?

Thanks everyone, been a great help
Sounds like a very good plan. ( storing,heating ,and aerating the water ).
One other thing I might mention.. always try to keep buckets,sponges,etc used for the aquarium away from areas where they may accidentally be used for other cleaning purposes and possibly come in contact with detergents or household cleaners. Good Luck.
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:57 AM   #19
 
Many thanks to everyone who has responed to my plight, as you can imagine its been hard loseing these fish

Im going out later to buy a big water bucket, probally like a water bucket, which can hold around 50 ltrs of water, so I can keep that full of water 24 - 48 hrs before I do a water change and treat it with the water treatment as said on here, sadly my local fish shop does not sell either of these products, so its looking like a on-line retailer job

I will fill tub of water with around 50 ltrs of water, treat it, then let stand for a god day and then test it with my test kit and see the result, might even run a air pump in there to ster it up a little, once this has been done, I will then pump it back to the aqurium ready for the water change, would it be wise to heat the water at same time its in this container so its the same temp, this should stop temp differnece happening?

Anyone see any issue with this idea?

Thanks everyone, been a great help
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:09 AM   #20
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riksworld View Post
Many thanks to everyone who has responed to my plight, as you can imagine its been hard loseing these fish

Im going out later to buy a big water bucket, probally like a water bucket, which can hold around 50 ltrs of water, so I can keep that full of water 24 - 48 hrs before I do a water change and treat it with the water treatment as said on here, sadly my local fish shop does not sell either of these products, so its looking like a on-line retailer job

I will fill tub of water with around 50 ltrs of water, treat it, then let stand for a god day and then test it with my test kit and see the result, might even run a air pump in there to ster it up a little, once this has been done, I will then pump it back to the aqurium ready for the water change, would it be wise to heat the water at same time its in this container so its the same temp, this should stop temp differnece happening?

Anyone see any issue with this idea?

Thanks everyone, been a great help
See previous post.
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