Prime usage with a drain/fill device - Page 2
Tropical Fish

Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources » Freshwater Fish and Aquariums » Beginner Freshwater Aquarium » Prime usage with a drain/fill device

Prime usage with a drain/fill device

This is a discussion on Prime usage with a drain/fill device within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Originally Posted by AbbeysDad This is done to avoid your fish from encountering untreated water since it is being added directly into the aquarium. ...

Check out these freshwater fish profiles
Sailfin Molly
Sailfin Molly
Brilliant Rummy Nose Tetra
Brilliant Rummy Nose Tetra
Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools vBmenu Seperating Image Search this Thread vBmenu Seperating Image
Prime usage with a drain/fill device
Old 01-23-2013, 09:03 AM   #11
JDM
 
JDM's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbeysDad View Post
This is done to avoid your fish from encountering untreated water since it is being added directly into the aquarium.
I would discount this as not a concern but here is a video of our betta, Oscar, body surfing the invisible standing wave from the fresh water stream... I think you can see the 1/2" hose at the beginning to see where the water is coming from. It would sort of suck for him to be surfing in chlorinated water.

So situations can vary.

I wonder if I should put a small power head in there for him?

Jeff.

Betta tank surfing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxvhvdMs5zo

Last edited by JDM; 01-23-2013 at 09:17 AM..
JDM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 09:08 AM   #12
 
beaslbob - you don't do water changes, so your comments are out of context.
Even though you only top off you could be at risk if you're on a municipal water supply that may switch to chloramine (which does not dissipate like chlorine).

Byron - I was not baiting you, merely communicating a Seachem Tech Support recommendation as I was reviewing their forum. I appreciate that you only use conditioner for the amount of new water added and not the entire volume. But how many times have I seen you write 'simply because you get away with something doesn't mean it's best for the fish'. Besides, you have heavily planted tanks - what about tanks that aren't planted? What about newer tanks not yet cycled or tanks that may be cycled but not yet established? ...
I don't think the recommendation is really an attempt to push more product, but more likely simply being a conservative approach to better ensure the success of a novice fish keeper.
Since they have tested the product at 5 times the normal dosage and found it to be safe with no ill effects why not recommend dosing for the entire volume for a typical water change, better ensuring that chlorine/chloramine converted to ammonia is bound and detoxified until plants and/or bacteria can process (oxidize). As to the detoxification of nitrites and nitrates, Seachem freely admits that this was not intended or designed, but later discovered. Surely that merely enhances rather than diminishes the usefulness of the product.

As to Seachem Flourish, my label says 'Refrigeration after opening is recommended but not required.' Also, in a separate thread on their support forum, Flourish was said to have an indefinite shelf life.

In closing, I was not looking to start anything, merely pointing out a manufacturers recommendation - or at least one of their Tech Support personnel's recommendation. Clearly dosing for the entire tank volume for the typical water change may not be absolutely required. However it may be the most conservative and safest approach when using a drain/refill device.

Footnote: I have no affiliation with Seachem and have a non-chlorinated well system (not a municipal water supply). I am not paid to make comments or start trouble.

Last edited by AbbeysDad; 01-23-2013 at 09:25 AM..
AbbeysDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 12:45 PM   #13
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbeysDad View Post
beaslbob - you don't do water changes, so your comments are out of context.
I'm still adding water.
Quote:
Even though you only top off you could be at risk if you're on a municipal water supply that may switch to chloramine (which does not dissipate like chlorine).
My current water supply since 2001 does use chloamine.
beaslbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 02:11 PM   #14
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob View Post
I'm still adding water. My current water supply since 2001 does use chloamine.
Surely when we're talking about conditioner to treat for chlorine/chloramine, you'd agree that adding a cup or two to make up for evaporation is nothing like a 50% water change!

Sidebar: Due to very high nitrates in my well water (95 acre farmers field across the road), I have dramatically reduced the volume of weekly water changes. However, I continue to believe in the benefit of routine partial fresh water changes to better maintain water quality. In spite of overwhelming expert opinions, what ever compelled you not to do any water changes?

Last edited by AbbeysDad; 01-23-2013 at 02:18 PM..
AbbeysDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 02:35 PM   #15
 
funkman262's Avatar
 
I went nearly 2 years without doing water changes on my previous setup. I was having to dose nitrate, phosphate, potassium, and iron to keep plants healthy because they were consuming nutrients/waste so quickly. I had a breeding pair of angelfish and a breeding pair of kribensis that were constantly spawning. All of the occupants were fine and showed no signs of stress, and none of them contracted any sort of illness. I'm sure many will still disagree with me, but I have no reason to believe that my tank was any less healthy than another having weekly water changes.
funkman262 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 08:08 PM   #16
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkman262 View Post
I went nearly 2 years without doing water changes on my previous setup. I was having to dose nitrate, phosphate, potassium, and iron to keep plants healthy because they were consuming nutrients/waste so quickly. I had a breeding pair of angelfish and a breeding pair of kribensis that were constantly spawning. All of the occupants were fine and showed no signs of stress, and none of them contracted any sort of illness. I'm sure many will still disagree with me, but I have no reason to believe that my tank was any less healthy than another having weekly water changes.

thanks for posting.

I constantly hear water changes are necessary for breeding.
beaslbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2013, 08:35 PM   #17
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beaslbob View Post
thanks for posting.

I constantly hear water changes are necessary for breeding.
It is important to point out that with some fish species water changes are crucial for breeding as it acts as a trigger.

EDIT: Also it is important to note that breeding does not indicate health of a tank. Fish in stress will still breed.

Last edited by Sanguinefox; 01-23-2013 at 08:50 PM..
Sanguinefox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 05:23 AM   #18
 
1077's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sanguinefox View Post
It is important to point out that with some fish species water changes are crucial for breeding as it acts as a trigger.

EDIT: Also it is important to note that breeding does not indicate health of a tank. Fish in stress will still breed.
Would agree with your statement in part.
Have had fish breed in less than ideal condition's,and some have dropped fry in bag on way home from fish store.
Stressed fish will breed in less than ideal condition's but successful spawn's,fry,are not the norm in my expieriences unless condition's suit them.
Nothing close to natural enviornment in glass box of water where waste build's up daily, with no mean's to export it( Tides,current,rain's.)
Water changes produce the export mechanisim to ensure that input into the glass box of water, do not begin to take toll on fishes health.
I do not doubt that plant's can help use up some,or even most of the waste created in the aquarium ,but have seen no evidence that water changes can't do it faster.
In any event,,water changes do no harm unless,,,,they are few and far between, and sudden change ,,even for the better,,, can then create stressful condition's for fish.
1077 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 05:52 AM   #19
 
Olympia's Avatar
 
Maybe we should agree to disagree. Let's face it, all your fish are alive from doing what you're doing. Unless you wanna preform some autopsies so we can compare their internal organs I don't see anyone getting far here. Most damage on your fish is on the inside where you can't see it, after all.
The other thing is that your fish are adaptable. They will adjust to whatever it is you're doing to them.. Sure hardy stuff like livebearers will do it faster than a discus, but they all adapt to what we put them through. I don't think fish get enough credit for that.
Posted via Mobile Device
Olympia is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2013, 08:42 AM   #20
pop
 
Hello:
A word about adaptation; here the word is used to signify a positive development a step toward success as the phrase “The other thing is that your fish are adaptable” or that over the centuries species have evolved to live in groups, survive only in soft-water with a low ph not to mention specific tds and water chemistry and the value of stress. In other words the critter changes for the better and the environment stays constant. In this view adaptation always moves toward success.

Example take a predator fish that always charges full steam straight toward the prey and the prey speedily escapes swimming foreword out of sight. We could say the prey fish has adapted a strategy to escape the predator but in doing so the prey fish has experienced increase in stress that has associated physiological consequences and changing water chemistry that reduces the prey fish ability respond to the approaching predators. This adapted strategy can be a step towards extinction.

Adaption generally moves toward extinction of the species over time because adaptive strategies are focused on specific environmental stimulus and when the environment changes the accumulated adaptions are no longer a positive survival strategy.

When I read the word adaptation or selection I have to consider what is being said because 99.999 % of all life forms have adapted themselves into extinction.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxx

Abbey’s dad has a specific nitrate/nitrate experience and I consider him to be very knowledgeable about prime and other products for controlling different aspects of the nitrogen cycle and worth listening too. Each of us has valuable experience keeping tropical fish to share with one another.
I don’t change tank water on a regular basis due to my belief the less I interfere with aquariums natural process the better it is for the residents.

pop
pop is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
120 Gallon With Home Made Stand and In Wall 55 Gallon With Drain and Fill Plumbing WTFJayJay DIY Aquarium 2 07-20-2009 03:33 PM
10 years down the drain! Please Help! clohmaier Tropical Fish Diseases 7 02-26-2008 07:51 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:53 PM.