Please Help..
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Please Help..

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Old 10-13-2011, 09:15 AM   #1
 
Unhappy Please Help..

Saturday 17th of Sep
I bought a 25Ltr fluval chi from my LFS they advised to set it up, test the water and return with a sample after 3 days and add a hardy fish like a Danio or molly if water showed normal results..
I set the tank up, added the dechlorinator and also added a cycle boost (Nutrafin Cycle) by Wednesday the tank went milky cloudy but cleared up by Friday.
Saturday 24th of Sep
We took a sample to the LFS and the readings were perfect got a Zebra Danio. Also put in a small live plant.
Wednesday 28th of Sep
Did a 10% water change and added cycle.
Throughout the week the Danio was happily swimming around the tank around/through ornaments feeding properly etc..
Saturday 1st Oct
We took a sample to the LFS again, the readings were perfect bought a Male Guppy. as soon as we released the Guppy in the tank he started exploring around and approaching the Danio inquisitively.. The Danio dint like the attention and distanced himself..
Sunday 2nd Oct
Noticed a trail of slimy poo coming out of Danio's anal fin.
Monday 3rd Oct
Came back from work and saw Danio literally sitting on the gravel motionless switched the lights on he started to move but was very lethargic.. and kept to the top of the tank. his gills appeared reddish, tail fin was drooping a bit and he was holding his pectoral fins towards his body.... on the same night I left the tank for a bit when I came back there was a streak of mixed food and goo on the plant looked like the Danio had been sick / vomited.
Tuesday 4th Oct
The Danio was found dead on the gravel.
The guppy was swimming around happily without any signs of stress.
I suspected an ammonia / nitrate or nitrite spike but the test kit I ordered was in Transit.
I changed 10% of the water the same day and added cycle to elevate any spikes.. Dint want to do more as it was just 2 days since we added a guppy and dint want to stress him out with a major change.
Thursday 6th Oct
Water Chemistry taken
PH 8.2
Ammonia 0.4
Nitrate 35
Nitrite 1.2
15% water changed after tests and cycle added
Sunday 9th Oct
20% water changed and cycle added
Tuesday 11th Oct
Water Chemistry taken
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 100
Nitrite 3.3
20% water Changed and Cycle added
Wednesday 12th Oct
Water Chemistry taken
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 70
Nitrite 1.6
20% water Changed & Double Dose of Cycle added

From the day I bought the guppy till now he has never eaten properly.. when I put in flakes he tastes it and then goes away. if I put in pellets he eats it bit by bit..
I have read on many forums to only put as much as they can eat in 1-2 mins but since the guppy takes a nibble, goes away swimming then comes back and takes a nibble intermittently I leave the food in for some time it sometimes eats 50-60% of a pellet in 1 hr and then I siphon out the residue to avoid it rotting.
I also tried feeding it blood worms but it dint seem interested.. goes in, takes a nibble and swims away.. & I end up siphoning it out after 15-20 mins..
I feed the guppy every alternate day..


Can someone please help me with my questions
  • I fail to understand why the Danio died ? Donít think it would be a water chemistry problem as it should have also affected the Guppy.. or itcould have been sick as when I went to the LFS the following week I saw the Danio tank was under treatment.
  • Why does the guppy seem more interested in constantly eating something from the aquarium glass walls... than fish food ?? I dint clean the glass walls as afraid it may take away good bacteria..
  • Why did my Nitrate and Nitrite spike in spite of 0 Ammonia ??
Appreciate any help / comments / advice / actions please
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Old 10-13-2011, 01:12 PM   #2
 
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Welcome to Tropical Fish Keeping forum.

I would be fairly certain that the problem here was the nitrification cycle, during which ammonia will rise, then nitrite, lastly nitrate. You can read more detail in the "sticky" on cycling at the head of this section, here's a direct link:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/f...m-cycle-38617/

Using a cycling product like "Cycle" will speed up the cycling process, but not eliminate it. It still takes time, 2 weeks plus. During this period, any fish in the tank will be exposed to high levels of ammonia and nitrite, and both are highly toxic at very, very low levels. At the very least, this is highly stressful, and while fish may live through it initially, it weakens them which can lead to other health problems. Almost always the internal damage is sufficient to result in an early demise.

Having live plants helps a lot, but it takes more than just one plant, and fast growing plants are more beneficial as they assimilate more ammonia/ammonium.

During the cycle, if ammonia or nitrite show above zero, a partial water change of 50% of the tank volume should be done, daily if necessary. Using a water conditioner that also detoxifies ammonia and nitrite is helpful during cycling; Prime and Ultimate are two that do both.

A 20L (I assume this is 20 liter) is small, so fish will have to be carefully chosen. Many are shoaling and need to be in groups, like the Danio, and there is not sufficient space in a 20L tank. You can find info on fish in our profiles, second tab from the left in the blue bar across the top; tank size, numbers of fish, etc are included in each profile.

Byron.
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denisvarghese (10-13-2011)
Old 10-13-2011, 01:39 PM   #3
 
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Agree w/ Byron. I'm just popping in to say welcome to TFK.
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denisvarghese (10-13-2011)
Old 10-13-2011, 03:39 PM   #4
 
The fluval chi over here is 6.6g so 20 litres sounds about right. With your High PH ammonia is even more toxic. Dont worry too much about the guppy. It will get hungry and eat eventually. Fish dont always eat everyday in the wild, and can go for a week or so without food. it's probably trying to eat algae. Many younger fish eat this when younger and grow out of it as they get older.
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denisvarghese (10-13-2011)
Old 10-13-2011, 03:44 PM   #5
 
Thankyou Byron and Auntie K
I shall read up on the info you suggested.
yes the tank is a 25 litre
when you say early demise due to internal damage do you mean a few days a few weeks or a few months.. I'd hate to loose another fish.
Today I tested the Tap water first
here are Tap water readings
PH 8.2
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 8
Nitrite 0

Then I Tested the Tank water
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 30
Nitrite 1.8
Ammonia and Nitrate better than yesterday but Nitrite slightly higher than today
did a 35% water change and added a double dose of Cycle.
not fed the guppy I hope these readings will go to normal by regular water changes.
Ami I going in the right direction
Any comments / tips appreciated
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Old 10-13-2011, 05:34 PM   #6
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denisvarghese View Post
Thankyou Byron and Auntie K
I shall read up on the info you suggested.
yes the tank is a 25 litre
when you say early demise due to internal damage do you mean a few days a few weeks or a few months.. I'd hate to loose another fish.
Today I tested the Tap water first
here are Tap water readings
PH 8.2
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 8
Nitrite 0

Then I Tested the Tank water
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 30
Nitrite 1.8
Ammonia and Nitrate better than yesterday but Nitrite slightly higher than today
did a 35% water change and added a double dose of Cycle.
not fed the guppy I hope these readings will go to normal by regular water changes.
Ami I going in the right direction
Any comments / tips appreciated
1.8 nitrite is EXTREMELY high, my jaw dropped when I saw that. You are absolutely destroying your fish with that reading. 30 nitrate is high, but in some cases tolerable by fish. I recommend a water change if you're over 20 nitrate. 1.8 nitrite is really, really bad. You need to do a large water change immediately. When I say large, I mean like 75%
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Old 10-13-2011, 06:42 PM   #7
 
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Agree. As I mentioned in my earlier post, with a reading above zero for ammonia or nitrite you want to change half the tank. I would recommend one of those conditioners (Prime or Ultimate), they will detoxify the ammonia/nitrite for up to 24-36 hours, but bacteria can still use either and a test will still show them.

It is the nitrite we are concerned with here; the nitrate is secondary and can be dealt with later. It is not as immediate as nitrite (or ammonia).

And by early demise, I mean anything less than normal lifespan. Both ammonia and nitrite poisoning affect the fish, and most biologists believe permanently. At some point in the future, the effects will take a toll. By then we may not connect whatever happens with the initial cycling issue, but it likely will be so.

Think of it as someone having a heat attack and surviving. They live through it, but are more susceptible from then on to things that otherwise would not be an issue. Sort of like that.

Byron.
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:02 AM   #8
 
Thank you Gmate & Byron
can you tell me the manufacturer of Prime & Ultimate; cant seem to find it here in London.
the demise bit makes sense now...

I will do another big water change today...
is there any way i can eliminate nitrate traces in my tap water completely or do anything to reduce it ? what if i use shop bought distilled water the ones sold in super markets for cars ?
Thankyou onceagain for your contributions / feedback
I shall keep you all posted..
D
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:17 AM   #9
 
Hi, I live in Devon and can get Prime in all local fish stockists. Amazon sell it -Seachem Prime.
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Old 10-14-2011, 08:56 AM   #10
 
Thankyou I shall look on amazon.. dint find it on the website of my LFS..

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarlettAngel View Post
Hi, I live in Devon and can get Prime in all local fish stockists. Amazon sell it -Seachem Prime.
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