Plant impacts on fish capacity - Page 3 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #21 of 35 Old 02-06-2012, 12:44 AM
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it would save us alot of trouble just to beat up byron and steal his already gorgeous tanks

since i started going planted, my fake plants have been slowly disappearing one by one. Its just not the same!

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post #22 of 35 Old 02-06-2012, 01:13 AM
Hey kids - it was a joke that accompanied a LOL.

I would likely have plants but would need all new lighting as the two 18" 15w lights that came with my Marineland 60g ensemble might support floating plants, but not rooted plants two feet deep.

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post #23 of 35 Old 02-06-2012, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikaila31 View Post
plants are under rated lol! You just can't match a planted tank with a plastic tank . Fertilizers are not evil at all, unless you get into the weird liquid carbon ones that I never suggest. I dose dry fertilizers in all my tanks now. Even the ones that use to be low tech before I moved. There was a major change in tap water parameters and that messed up all my tanks. I use 5 different dry fertilizers in total. All are harmless to the fish if used correctly. They are less chemical then dechlor. Most are considered salts. Potassium Nitrate is my nitrogen fertilizer, KNO3. When added to water it dissolves to NO3- and K+, both are macro nutrients for plants. Then I have Phosphate, potassium, Magnesium, and trace fertilizers.

I agree with what Bryon said above. Though I don't feel that plants actively take Nitrite, at least according to Walsteds research if I remember correctly.

Fish don't interact with plastic plants they same way they do with live plants. Live plants are much softer fish actively make body contact with them, swim into dense patches, and move them around.

Live plants grow and the tank changes day by day making things always new to you and the fish. They help control wastes, inhibit algae growth, provide oxygen and extra filtration, make the tank more stable, and they reproduce much easier then most fish lol.

Maybe one day you will try plants AbbeysDad. They don't have to cost more or be more hassle then any non-planted tank. You might have to bend your ways a little though .

Ignore a planted tank for awhile it turns into a jungle. Then you can prune it and go trade the plants for stuff at the store lol.
As per Tom Barr's NON CO2 method (can google this), I too use the dry fertilizer salt's in much less amount's than those who run High energy tank's with CO2 enhancement.
Once a week, I add these salt's along with Micronutrient's and plant's respond well and fishes thrive also.
Have noted larger ,broader,faster leaf development, and a bit faster growth than previous effort's with only amount's found in some liquid fertilizer's which are largely water with smaller amount's of Nitrogen,phosphate,pottasium,and heavy on Micronutrient's.
Am still studying the plant's, and listening to what they are saying in low tech moderate light, but find that adding a little more nutrient's each week, is no more difficult than adding food for the fishes, and the dry fertz last much longer than the more expensive liquid fertilizer which as mentioned,is largely water.
Dry trace minerals (CSM+B) are also used in my tanks and they too are much cheaper and last longer than product's such as flourish (gave mine to my sister).
Purchased the fertz I use at( Aquariumfertilizer.com) and for around 20 dollars,I can get around three pounds of the fertilizer which last's around a year or more depending on number of tank's and tank volumes.
Put away my nitrate test when it was suggested by those much more knowledgeable, that without calibration, the result's were suspect at best.
I observe the plant's and fish and they can offer much in the way both perform.
Water changes in three planted tank's vary from once a month, to twice a week depending on species and number's.
Don't necessarily believe that planted tanks offer more stocking capacity for as mentioned in first post in this thread,,many variables to consider.
Plant mass and volume of water would be my starting point when considering stocking levels.
What some folks call planted or heavily planted, is also another variable to consider I think.
Anyhow,, this is my two cent's.

The most important medication in your fish medicine cabinet is.. Clean water.
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post #24 of 35 Old 02-06-2012, 05:32 AM
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those same dry ferts came up in conversation in the planted forum a few days ago.. Im considering using the same ferts from the same site for my 2 planted display tanks... because a small bottle of flourish will go to fast and a big bottle will spoil before I use it, without a fridge readily available. Not to mention it affords great value and flexibility. Im glad to see someone having a positive experience!

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post #25 of 35 Old 02-06-2012, 09:17 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbeysDad View Post
Hey kids - it was a joke that accompanied a LOL.
I got it!
Says the man who still has bright florescent red, orange, and blue plastic plants mixed in one of his planted tanks

18 species/varieties of fish, 15 species/varieties of plants - The fish are finally ahead of the plants!
*560 gallons (2120 liters) in 5 tanks -> you do the math.
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post #26 of 35 Old 02-06-2012, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by AbbeysDad View Post
Hey kids - it was a joke that accompanied a LOL.

I would likely have plants but would need all new lighting as the two 18" 15w lights that came with my Marineland 60g ensemble might support floating plants, but not rooted plants two feet deep.
But you know this is just an reason to get another tank.

I also get my fertilizers from aquariumfertilizers.com. They sell a number of them. I use KNO3, K2SO4, KH2PO4, and CSM+B. Then MgSO4 which I get from target or walmart. 75% of dry fertilizer costs is in the trace fertilizer CSM+B which costs usually $15 a pound. But out of that it costs less then $1 to make up a 500mL bottle of what is basically flourish. That pound can make 15 500mL bottles. In comparison all the other common dry fertilizers cost around $4/lb. I've been using dry fertilizers for over 3 years now.

When you get dry fertilizers they look like this. Mixtures and dosage varies a lot depending what method you follow. Bag usually give you some standard to go off. How much you need is up to you so they don't normally tell you that. These are from Rex, but I don't think he sells stuff anymore. These were my first dry fertilizers and I still have that bag of KNO3 lol.

.... I'm probably drunk.

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post #27 of 35 Old 02-06-2012, 11:52 AM
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Yeah I got it all figured out just from reading the labels on those bags. If my math is right I need to dose 9 lbs every 3 hours. There is also the possibility, that I shouldnt have slept through chemistry, and math

I actually did the math not that long ago, and to switch to dry ferts, dosing once a week what they recommend to start at, would last something like 4 years. If you have the patience to do the math, and mix the solutions, you really cant beat it.

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post #28 of 35 Old 02-06-2012, 11:59 AM
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I have been meaning to look into those dry ferts, but need a good source. Can one of you (Mikaila, Lee) suggest a good online supplier where I could review the product and order if I decide to?

Quote:
I agree with what Bryon said above. Though I don't feel that plants actively take Nitrite, at least according to Walsteds research if I remember correctly.
This actually came from Walstad's book, and I just tossed it into the discussion more as an aside. She says there is no definitive answer to whether plants use nitrite over nitrate, but some studies suggest it likely for some plants. She mentions duckweed that clearly preferred nitrite over nitrate, and Spirodela oligorrhiza when grown in media containing ammonium and nitrite removed both at approximately the same rate. But she notes that nitrite uptake and assimilation into proteins requires special transporters and enzymes, and these are not required for ammonium uptake.

Byron.

P.S. I knew AD was kidding, which is why I wasn't drawn into that little exchange.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #29 of 35 Old 02-06-2012, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Byron View Post
I have been meaning to look into those dry ferts, but need a good source. Can one of you (Mikaila, Lee) suggest a good online supplier where I could review the product and order if I decide to?
Planted Aquarium Fertilizer - , , , , Planted Aquarium Fertilizer - , ,

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post #30 of 35 Old 02-06-2012, 02:05 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
I have been meaning to look into those dry ferts, but need a good source. Can one of you (Mikaila, Lee) suggest a good online supplier where I could review the product and order if I decide to?
I purchased mine from Greenleaf, a very slight bit more more pricey, but I was already ordering some other stuff so it was convenient.

Aquarium Plant Fertilizer | Green Leaf Aquariums

From experience, I'd recommend an iron test kit for some folks, depending on local water supply. Thought I had low iron in one tank, turns out it was significantly elevated and I don't need to dose iron after all.

18 species/varieties of fish, 15 species/varieties of plants - The fish are finally ahead of the plants!
*560 gallons (2120 liters) in 5 tanks -> you do the math.

Last edited by DKRST; 02-06-2012 at 02:08 PM.
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