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Omg!! Just got my new tank!!!!

This is a discussion on Omg!! Just got my new tank!!!! within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Ok, thanks. so if I don't get the danios would I have room for 5-6 neon tetras 2 guppies (male) and 3-4 tiger barbs???...

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Omg!! Just got my new tank!!!!
Old 01-28-2009, 05:10 PM   #21
 
Ok, thanks. so if I don't get the danios would I have room for
5-6 neon tetras
2 guppies (male)
and 3-4 tiger barbs???
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Old 01-28-2009, 05:19 PM   #22
 
I kniw that tiger barbs will nip fins, but if I keep them in a group then they should be fine with guppies. Is this true?
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Old 01-28-2009, 05:56 PM   #23
 
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First off, fishless cycling does not allow you to fully stock an aquarium immediately. There's no way to know for sure if you've got a sufficient colony of bacteria to support what fish you plan to put in. Even if you cycle fishlessly you still need to take your time adding stock. Take it slowly and build up to your full stock list.

The barbs will not behave themselves in that small of a group. You'd need 6 to 8 at a bare minimum and there's just not enough room in the tank for that many.
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Old 01-28-2009, 07:08 PM   #24
 
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There are plenty of other options in a 10g tank besides community setups. You could do something like:
-A single dwarf cichlid like a ram, kribensis, apistogramma or nannacara along with a small school of tetras or rasboras
-three or four dwarf puffers (very cute, but need frozen and likely live foods like blackworms and pond snails)
-a small colony of dwarf shelldwellers like Neolamprologus brevis, Neolamprologus multifasciatus, or Lamprologus ocellatus (can be harder to find and a bit more expensive than more common fish but are very interesting and easy to take care of)
-a single red eye puffer (care is similar to dwarf puffers but these guys are a little bigger)
-a school of corydoras catfish (not the pygmy types) and a single male golden wonder killifish
-a group of sparkling gouramis
-a small group of badis badis or scarlet badis (these will need live or frozen foods)

If any of those strike your fancy, feel free to ask questions about them.

About the other fish: The neons are fine. I would get a third male guppy just in case the two don't really get along for some reason. Tiger barbs get pretty big, nippy, and really need a big group and a lot of swimming space. I'd agree that they aren't suited for a 10g. Cherry barbs would work, though. Get a ratio of one male to every two females to bring out the best colors in the males.
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Old 01-28-2009, 07:34 PM   #25
 
Thanks guys. I started a new thread in the photo posting thing. So far all I have is some info and A pic of my bare tank. Feal free to reply there, too! iamntbatman, I will reply to ur fish later, they all sound great, but my sister hurt her ankle really bad and I need to see if shes ok!!!!!
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Old 01-29-2009, 07:08 AM   #26
 
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Saving that shell dweller list, I am going to have a tank with some of them eventually. I'm going to drive my wife insane. "Only 3 or 4 more tanks honey, honest. 300 or so more gallons and I'd be done."

Oh that's a lie.
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Old 01-29-2009, 07:56 AM   #27
 
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Originally Posted by Tyyrlym View Post
Saving that shell dweller list, I am going to have a tank with some of them eventually. I'm going to drive my wife insane. "Only 3 or 4 more tanks honey, honest. 300 or so more gallons and I'd be done."

Oh that's a lie.
lol! If I had the money!!!
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Old 01-29-2009, 08:03 AM   #28
 
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Originally Posted by iamntbatman View Post
There are plenty of other options in a 10g tank besides community setups. You could do something like:
-A single dwarf cichlid like a ram, kribensis, apistogramma or nannacara along with a small school of tetras or rasboras
-three or four dwarf puffers (very cute, but need frozen and likely live foods like blackworms and pond snails)
-a small colony of dwarf shelldwellers like Neolamprologus brevis, Neolamprologus multifasciatus, or Lamprologus ocellatus (can be harder to find and a bit more expensive than more common fish but are very interesting and easy to take care of)
-a single red eye puffer (care is similar to dwarf puffers but these guys are a little bigger)
-a school of corydoras catfish (not the pygmy types) and a single male golden wonder killifish
-a group of sparkling gouramis
-a small group of badis badis or scarlet badis (these will need live or frozen foods)

If any of those strike your fancy, feel free to ask questions about them.

About the other fish: The neons are fine. I would get a third male guppy just in case the two don't really get along for some reason. Tiger barbs get pretty big, nippy, and really need a big group and a lot of swimming space. I'd agree that they aren't suited for a 10g. Cherry barbs would work, though. Get a ratio of one male to every two females to bring out the best colors in the males.
Those tanks all sound really cool! I was actually thinking about getting a 5g with one Dwarf puffer soon! The ones that I am most interested in I have made bold, I really like the red eye puffer, but I'd like this tank to be more of a community tank. I have a few concerns tho. I don't want my fish breeding like crazy cuz I don't have room, Do shelldwellers have different needs than other? Is there anything you can tell me that I should know about these guys? Thanks!!!
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Old 01-29-2009, 12:18 PM   #29
 
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Originally Posted by Tyyrlym View Post
First off, fishless cycling does not allow you to fully stock an aquarium immediately. There's no way to know for sure if you've got a sufficient colony of bacteria to support what fish you plan to put in. Even if you cycle fishlessly you still need to take your time adding stock. Take it slowly and build up to your full stock list.

The barbs will not behave themselves in that small of a group. You'd need 6 to 8 at a bare minimum and there's just not enough room in the tank for that many.
Tyyrlym, sorry but i can't agree with you on this. the whole point of the fishless is to keep stress off the fish and establish a larger than traditional cycling colony alot faster. taking it slow may decrease the colony size and may cause a mini cycle.keeping the 1" per gal in mind and the colony should hold. especially in a planted tank. also if the ammonia being added goes to 0 within 8-12 the colony is half way there, everything else falls in place. on my re-setup, i am currently adding 8ppm+ and i reach .25-.5 in 36-48 hours. I just added plants last week so they didn't do this, the bacteria gets the credit. here are a few links for the reading. they all don't say fully stock but they also don't say take it slow with this method. i may not have alot of post but i have been around for awhile and i did my research years ago. 2002 to be exact when i first set up my tank.

The Nitrogen Cycle - ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, fishless cycling
Fishless Aquarium Cycle
How to do a fishless cycle - Tropical Fish Forums
Fishless Cycling?Fish Tank | Tank of Fish

Last edited by flight50; 01-29-2009 at 12:34 PM..
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Old 01-29-2009, 02:40 PM   #30
 
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Well first off, 1" per gallon is just plain bad advice. In my opinion it's just not a good rule for beginners because it takes nothing into account that needs to be during stocking.

Second, fishless cycling is only about establishing a bacterial colony without exposing fish to ammonia and nitrites. There is no correlation between a randomly selected ppm of ammonia and whether or not that's going to support a given group of fish. There are too many variables in play to ever say that a certain dosing of ammonia will generate a bacterial colony of sufficient size for someone's stocking. Variables such as plants, their tap water, the way they feed the fish, even the fish's initial size (the ammonia production of a 0.75" neon is dramatically different from a 1.5" neon), can drastically affect how much of a bacterial colony is needed.

Lemme say this because I've come to consider this the cardinal rule of fish keeping. The only things that happen quickly in an aquarium are bad things.

After fishlessly cycling you have a bacterial colony established in your tank, that's the goal. You have no way of correlating the ammonia output of your fish going about their daily activities with the way you've been dosing the aquarium. Putting in any fish at that point is a crap shoot. The good news is that the odds are very very good that the bacterial colony can support at least a few fish no problem. So the best way to not create problems is to take it slow. Add a group of fish, monitor the water conditions. If after a week nothing has happened, no ammonia spikes or such, add more fish. After a week, add some more.

Taking it slowly will not cause a mini-cycle. First off, the goal of taking it slowly is to have your fish waste production stay lower than what your bacteria can handle. So long as your first fish addition is small there's very little chance of overwhelming the colony your fishless cycle built up. The colony will also not die off so much that you start a mini-cycle. Worst case scenario is you lose all but the bacteria you need to support the fish you added. What about group two a week later? Well the good news is that:

1) Bacteria die off very slowly. It's not like you take food away and ten minutes later they're all dead.
2) There's still food in the tank, just not enough that they'll be eating as much as they can and reproducing as fast as they can. Just like human though bacteria don't always need to ate as much as they absolutely can. Your bacterial colony will grow to the point where the death rate of bacteria is equal to the reproduction rate.
3) While the bacteria in our tanks are slow reproducers compared to other bacteria they can still double in number daily.

What this all means is simple. Between the first addition and the second not a lot of bacteria are going to die off. Some will, but not a tremendous amount, only until they reach their starvation limit. Once you add more fish the bacteria go from a starvation diet (just enough to keep them alive) to a feast and they start reproducing like crazy again.

I've stocked my tank in exactly this way. In fact my second addition doubled the number of fish I had in the tank, no mini-cycle. My third addition doubled the mass (though not number) of fish in my tank. I monitored it closely, no mini-cycle.

And yes, I've done my research, a lot of it. I still don't agree with recklessly slamming fish into an aquarium when you have no idea how many fish it can actually support. That's how you get mini-cycles. That's how you kill fish.
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