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For the Non-water changers in the crowd.

This is a discussion on For the Non-water changers in the crowd. within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Originally Posted by Olympia I don't quite understand what you are saying.. Posted via Mobile Device just that if a tank has been setup ...

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For the Non-water changers in the crowd.
Old 01-27-2013, 01:32 PM   #61
 
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Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
I don't quite understand what you are saying..
Posted via Mobile Device
just that if a tank has been setup up properly to deal with chemical load and some.
and then planted with many different types then it can handle it own chemical load so nothing ever changes for more than 24 hrs and when it does it never changes much
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Old 01-27-2013, 01:43 PM   #62
 
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The only tank that has the nitrate issue is my 90 gallon goldfish tank. This is just a consequence of these fish. If you look back, it's been known for HUNDREDS of years that 80-100% water changes are needed every 10 days. They receive a high quality food (flake/pellet is unhealthy for them) which is extremely messy. I have plants but they also need a lot of room, they would have a hard time in a densely planted tank. Just natural that they are messy.. A healthy goldie should be growing 4-7" in it's first two years, so that high growth rate means high mess. Again, hundreds and hundreds of years has been put into perfecting goldfish care so I would not argue over it.
However I do agree otherwise. I have a 75 liter with over 30 fish and it never goes about 10ppm nitrate, even if I skip a week in changing.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:03 PM   #63
 
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No, you can't have too much O2 in the tank. And it would be very difficult to oversaturate the water with oxygen the way a typical fish tank is set up.
Referring solely to live plants, it is possible to have too much oxygen, and this can inhibit the uptake of certain nutrients by the plants. When dissolved oxygen levels are high, several nutrients, especially iron, bind with oxygen and become too large to be assimilated by the plants.

Quote:
What will remove CO2? If you're referring to aerating the tank, then yes and no. Aerating will remove CO2 IF CO2 is being dosed into the tank, OR if there's enough fish that the CO2 produced is higher than the equilibrium concentration. However, if neither of those are the case, then aerating will replenish the CO2 that's being used by the plants.
This topic has been debated on plant forums. The long-held view is that water movement will drive CO2 out and bring in excess oxygen. While a few notable authors have suggested otherwise, there has so far, to the best of my knowledge, been no concrete evidence that aeration in a natural (low-tech) method planted tank actually brings in CO2 rather than driving it out faster.

The sediment water contains much higher concentrations of CO2 than the upper water, as much as 100 times more. Two main reasons account for this. First, the organics in the substrate will be broken down by various bacteria and as they decompose a lot of CO2 is produced. Second, the plants themselves cause CO2 in the substrate. Plants have large internal channels for the transportation of oxygen, and most of this oxygen is transported to the roots where it is released. [The oxygen released by the roots of floating plants diffuses directly into the water, and this is one of the major benefits of floating plants.] In the substrate, this oxygen combines with carbon and organic elements creating CO2 which enters the water is then taken up by the plant (through its leaves) in photosynthesis.

The uptake of CO2 from the water is a much slower process than from air. The diffusion of CO2 into water is 10,000 times slower than in air. This means that the CO2 molecules don't contact the plant leaves fast enough, limiting CO2 uptake. Plants with an aerial advantage, such as those floating or sending leaves above the water surface, take up far more CO2 and thus photosynthesize (grow) faster.

Water in equilibrium with air contains 0.5 mg/l of CO2, which is insufficient for most plants. In our natural method planted tanks, CO2 for aquarium plants is mostly derived from fish food and organic matter in the substrate. It is vital to limit loss of this natural CO2 which will occur through any measure that increases air-water mixing. The higher level of CO2 from the substrate compared to the air will be lost faster than the plants can take it up if there is increased surface disturbance.

Byron.

Last edited by Byron; 01-27-2013 at 02:08 PM..
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:04 PM   #64
 
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Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
The only tank that has the nitrate issue is my 90 gallon goldfish tank. This is just a consequence of these fish. If you look back, it's been known for HUNDREDS of years that 80-100% water changes are needed every 10 days. They receive a high quality food (flake/pellet is unhealthy for them) which is extremely messy. I have plants but they also need a lot of room, they would have a hard time in a densely planted tank. Just natural that they are messy.. A healthy goldie should be growing 4-7" in it's first two years, so that high growth rate means high mess. Again, hundreds and hundreds of years has been put into perfecting goldfish care so I would not argue over it.
However I do agree otherwise. I have a 75 liter with over 30 fish and it never goes about 10ppm nitrate, even if I skip a week in changing.
Posted via Mobile Device

i have a 350L 76UK Gallon or 93US Gallon

there is over 30 moillies and 15 other fish but some grow large example i have 2 silver sharks at 7.5 inch 3 clown loach at 2" 3 weather loach at 8.5inch and more


and i change 20L out of 350L a month which is only 7%

never get anything other than 1-3ppm nitrate

Last edited by madyotto; 01-27-2013 at 02:07 PM..
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:13 PM   #65
 
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so what about my clown's and glass cats and the fact that before i rid of my apple snails they had bred many time's this would not happen in a unhealthy setup

glass cat would be the first to go if there was anything wrong
This depends. As I have stated previously, fish do somehow manage to cope with less-than desirable situations. Some fish are obviously better at this than others. And one must take all the factors into the equation. Live plants certainly do benefit in such situations, as will less fish load, less feeding, etc. And as things deteriorate slowly, the fish may adjust to it, in an effort to remain alive. The will to live is very strong in most animals (and plants, for that matter).

But one must not assume that just because the fish are coping, they are at their best. They clearly are not. Our aim as responsible aquarists should be to do all we can to benefit the health of the fish we acquire, and this will have a consequence long-term. Apropos the blue paragraph in my signature.

Byron.

Last edited by Byron; 01-27-2013 at 02:16 PM..
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:16 PM   #66
 
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Again, the point you are making eludes me.. :s
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:31 PM   #67
 
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Originally Posted by madyotto View Post
i have a 350L 76UK Gallon or 93US Gallon

there is over 30 moillies and 15 other fish but some grow large example i have 2 silver sharks at 7.5 inch 3 clown loach at 2" 3 weather loach at 8.5inch and more


and i change 20L out of 350L a month which is only 7%

never get anything other than 1-3ppm nitrate
But nitrate is only one of several issues. There is no way for aquarists to test the water with respect to these issues; it is simply a fact that the various issues occur as substances accumulate. Mikaila in this thread and I in the articles spell all this out.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:21 PM   #68
 
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As for my opinion, I'm not a bio-chemist.. I don't do many water changes in most of my tanks. My 20 long hasn't had one In over a year. I'm breeding gourami in it though, and they don't seem to need well in talks with a lot of water water changes.I have a tea tdsmatter, and the tds seem stable.on the high side, but stable nonetheless.why? I don't know for sure but I have a theory.

My tanks are full of plants, and I use lots of bacteria.. I innoculate my tanks with a small amount of soil that I collect from an area of my yard that collects run off from a forested hill and forms puddles whenever it rains.

I rinse my filter media every month or so, and its full of sludge.

I think that most of the yrs are broken down and converted to growth by.bacteria and plants that is removed by trimmings and filter rinsing. This tank is lightly stocked, with only gourami and their spawn. Water is clear, and nitrates are stable at 20. My ph slowly to 6.4, and is also stable.

If you set up a experiment, make sure you introduce bacteria, feed light, understock, and keep an eye on the ph.

I don't understate the risk and complexity of a no water change tank, just like I don't say soil is guaranteed toworkperfectly.. only that it works for me.
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Last edited by Olympia; 01-31-2013 at 02:38 PM.. Reason: removing inappropriate comment
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:00 PM   #69
 
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Btw, all sides the consequent arguments have been made, I chose to only answer original post.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:21 PM   #70
JDM
 
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Originally Posted by redchigh View Post
Btw, all sides the consequent arguments have been made, I chose to only answer original post.
Thank you.

Jeff.
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