New tank/stand and stand set up!!! Pplus a couple questions - Page 3 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #21 of 28 Old 02-01-2013, 11:31 AM
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Byron, what about just floaters with that lighting? Seeing as the light does not need to penetrate and they are so close to the bulb, it doesn't replace a fully planted tank but certainly goes a ways to gaining some benefits of plants, at least as a bit of a buffer.
Yes. One option in a situation like this would be to do a true Amazon biotope aquascape. Sand substrate, several chunks of bogwood, and just floating plants. The light would work for the plants floating, and the lower tank would be dimly lit which is exactly the condition in most Amazon streams. And the fish would sparkle. Shoals of characins (tetra), dwarf cichlid pair or harem, substrate corys, etc.

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #22 of 28 Old 02-01-2013, 11:43 AM
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Yes. One option in a situation like this would be to do a true Amazon biotope aquascape. Sand substrate, several chunks of bogwood, and just floating plants. The light would work for the plants floating, and the lower tank would be dimly lit which is exactly the condition in most Amazon streams. And the fish would sparkle. Shoals of characins (tetra), dwarf cichlid pair or harem, substrate corys, etc.

Byron.
I like the idea, my wife wouldn't, she can't handle the yellow stained water as it is.

Well, I was also trying to come up with a multilevel idea. The only one I could think of involves wood (or some sort of decor, could be almost anything) and attaching things like java moss , java fern , anubias , even some of the stems would work that way... my red ludwigia seems to like to just float around as it is. The wood gets the plants off the bottom and closer to the light source to reduce the depth of water penetration needed for the light.

It boils down to how much additional work is anyone (Homer?) willing to do to get the benefit of plants over just bumping up the lighting to let the planting be easier. Personally, I would like the challenge but I'm certainly not the average hobbyist.

Jeff.


Total years fish keeping experience: 7 months, can't start counting in years for a while yet.

The shotgun approach to a planted tank with an LED fixture

Small scale nitrogen cycle with a jar, water and fish food; no substrate, filter etc
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post #23 of 28 Old 02-01-2013, 08:06 PM Thread Starter
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Homer is name of the black moore I had as a kid. That fish lived for 5 years (unless my parents kept replacing him with the same size fish under my nose....)

The 45 gallon is mine the 38 gallon is technically my sisters as she didnt want to do cichlids and I did. So she would likely buy what is needed for her tank. I was actually looking at an in tank LED lighting system I think it suctioned to the side of the tank what about using that for light?

Again, I have no idea about the light stuff my ex was into fish and he did all this stuff when we were together
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post #24 of 28 Old 02-02-2013, 12:45 PM
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Homer is name of the black moore I had as a kid. That fish lived for 5 years (unless my parents kept replacing him with the same size fish under my nose....)

The 45 gallon is mine the 38 gallon is technically my sisters as she didnt want to do cichlids and I did. So she would likely buy what is needed for her tank. I was actually looking at an in tank LED lighting system I think it suctioned to the side of the tank what about using that for light?

Again, I have no idea about the light stuff my ex was into fish and he did all this stuff when we were together
LED light for aquaria is relative new on the market, so many of us have little or no experience. I am considering a LED fixture for one of my tanks, but haven't got it yet. If you could link some fixtures, some of us might be able to comment.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #25 of 28 Old 02-02-2013, 01:18 PM
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LED light for aquaria is relative new on the market, so many of us have little or no experience. I am considering a LED fixture for one of my tanks, but haven't got it yet. If you could link some fixtures, some of us might be able to comment.
And I only know LED. I just found out this morning that the "T" rating is the diameter of the fluorescent bulb. I was trying to get a handle on some sort of comparison between the LED and fluorescent lighting... there is not much to compare they are so different.

A short bit on my setup, seeing as it is working. I would consider it low light but even my red plants are doing well.

I have a Marineland double bright 24"-36" fixture (don't bother even looking at the single bright for plants)
it has 8 x 1 Watt LED bulbs for a 24" fixture. I think they are 129 lumens per watt bulbs
So just over 1,000 lumens
Light is 6500K (peak)
Tank is 37 gallon tall so height is 22"

This works out to just under 0.25 Watts per gallon... But the depth is more important as is the surface area of the bottom as the lights are relatively focused when compared to fluorescents. You could get away with less wattage if the depth were reduced but the light would provide a smaller footprint on the bottom and the next size down in LED bulbs seems to be the 0.06 Watt I think... The same 24" fixture has over 50 bulbs for a combined wattage of around 3watts.

I think that 0.25 Watts per gallon would be a good guide, sort of like the 1" of fish per gallon rule.

Jeff.


Total years fish keeping experience: 7 months, can't start counting in years for a while yet.

The shotgun approach to a planted tank with an LED fixture

Small scale nitrogen cycle with a jar, water and fish food; no substrate, filter etc
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post #26 of 28 Old 02-02-2013, 03:36 PM
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And I only know LED. I just found out this morning that the "T" rating is the diameter of the fluorescent bulb. I was trying to get a handle on some sort of comparison between the LED and fluorescent lighting... there is not much to compare they are so different.

A short bit on my setup, seeing as it is working. I would consider it low light but even my red plants are doing well.

I have a Marineland double bright 24"-36" fixture (don't bother even looking at the single bright for plants)
it has 8 x 1 Watt LED bulbs for a 24" fixture. I think they are 129 lumens per watt bulbs
So just over 1,000 lumens
Light is 6500K (peak)
Tank is 37 gallon tall so height is 22"

This works out to just under 0.25 Watts per gallon... But the depth is more important as is the surface area of the bottom as the lights are relatively focused when compared to fluorescents. You could get away with less wattage if the depth were reduced but the light would provide a smaller footprint on the bottom and the next size down in LED bulbs seems to be the 0.06 Watt I think... The same 24" fixture has over 50 bulbs for a combined wattage of around 3watts.

I think that 0.25 Watts per gallon would be a good guide, sort of like the 1" of fish per gallon rule.

Jeff.
As I understand it, with LED, the watts is not always relevant. Lumens are moreso. It so happens that this fixture you mentioned is exactly the one I am intending to get for my 3-foot 33g or my 30-inch 29g. Both currently have a single T8 tube, 30-inch (25w) on the 33g and 24-inch (20w) on the 29g. Without the expensive Life-Glo tubes, these are inadequate. I have a GE Daylight over the 29g now, and the plants are slowly dying (previously, they managed with a Life-Glo). I did this deliberately, as I wanted to see if the "better" tube was worth it, and clearly it is. All tubes are not created equal. But compariing the cost of a new LG every 12 months to the cost of the LED which will last for 70,000 hours (= 24 years with no tube replacement), the LED is far the better option. And going only from what I have read, this fixture you mention is supposed to be ideal for planted tanks without CO2. The lumens is certainly much greater than the T8 Life-Glo tube.

Jeff, the info I have says that you get a natural sunlight-ripple effect in the water, is this the case? This is not possible with fluorescent tubes, only when using spotlights.

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #27 of 28 Old 02-02-2013, 04:02 PM
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The watts are always relevant, just not compatible to anything else due to the efficiency of the bulb. If you are comparing LED to LED, the watts are the same unless buying some really crappy bulbs... But isn't that just the same as tubes? There is just no conversion from incandescent and fluorescent to LED so you have to start from what works given the LED then come up with a guide.

Don't scrimp on the size of the fixture, if you have a 3' tank get the 36"+ fixture. If I were starting over I would probably have gone with a 36" tank instead of the 30" just to be able to use the longer light, but I am making it work.

I didn't really go by reviews or suggestions for this unit, so I don't know if it is "supposed" to be good for non-CO2. I just know that it works and for the money I wanted to spend on a fixture, it was the best I could do.

I think they only rate the life expectancy as 17,000 hours, not 70,000. I think It will fall somewhere between those numbers though.

I mistakenly thought that the ripple effect was something in the fixture. It is due only to the spot light effect IF the surface of the water is moving or there are little floating plants swirling around like a midway ride (duckweed strikes again). With a minimal flow tank, the effect will also be minimal.

I think that you will like the results. How much a you going to pay for it? I did a Boxing Day sale, I've forgotten what the price was now but I think just over $100.

Jeff.


Total years fish keeping experience: 7 months, can't start counting in years for a while yet.

The shotgun approach to a planted tank with an LED fixture

Small scale nitrogen cycle with a jar, water and fish food; no substrate, filter etc
JDM is offline  
post #28 of 28 Old 02-02-2013, 04:11 PM
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The watts are always relevant, just not compatible to anything else due to the efficiency of the bulb. If you are comparing LED to LED, the watts are the same unless buying some really crappy bulbs... But isn't that just the same as tubes? There is just no conversion from incandescent and fluorescent to LED so you have to start from what works given the LED then come up with a guide.

Don't scrimp on the size of the fixture, if you have a 3' tank get the 36"+ fixture. If I were starting over I would probably have gone with a 36" tank instead of the 30" just to be able to use the longer light, but I am making it work.

I didn't really go by reviews or suggestions for this unit, so I don't know if it is "supposed" to be good for non-CO2. I just know that it works and for the money I wanted to spend on a fixture, it was the best I could do.

I think they only rate the life expectancy as 17,000 hours, not 70,000. I think It will fall somewhere between those numbers though.

I mistakenly thought that the ripple effect was something in the fixture. It is due only to the spot light effect IF the surface of the water is moving or there are little floating plants swirling around like a midway ride (duckweed strikes again). With a minimal flow tank, the effect will also be minimal.

I think that you will like the results. How much a you going to pay for it? I did a Boxing Day sale, I've forgotten what the price was now but I think just over $100.

Jeff.
Pets&Ponds [I order much of my stuff from them] have it for $99 regular. And there is a wonderful store near me, J&L Aquatics, that has the same prices as P&P. They (J&L) are mainly marine, but they carry some FW stuff [Seachem plant products, New Life Spectrum foods, etc] and of course lighting and filters. But, presently they have a special, see here:
Marineland LED Lighting Fixtures

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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