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new 75g planted and stocked

This is a discussion on new 75g planted and stocked within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Originally Posted by corina savin H2CO3 ---> H+ (proton) + HCO3- (bicarbonate) this and then this: HCO3- --> H+ and CO3-- in most natual ...

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new 75g planted and stocked
Old 09-17-2012, 09:26 PM   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corina savin View Post
H2CO3 ---> H+ (proton) + HCO3- (bicarbonate)
this

and then this: HCO3- --> H+ and CO3--

in most natual waters other alkalinity anions are insignificant so that KH = total alkalinity
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Old 09-19-2012, 11:52 AM   #12
 
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I will try to replace the pink tube. I have 1.44 watts per gallon, something considered moderate light. Not all plants are displaying the level of growth seen in Wisteria. I also noticed small bubbles late in the day (all over the gravel, wood and Anubia). They are gone in the morning. I guess this is oxygen.
I agree with the substrate. It suppose to provide iron but I could not detect any when I tested the water for iron (I was suspecting high iron level because of certain plant growth, normal Gh but low Kh...Calcium carbonate should increase both).
Did I mention that I insert some API Root tab at the start of the tank? Oh, yes, did that also, looking for plants to grow quick to cycle my tank smoothly. Now I want them to stop. Is my tank cycled? It is 1 month old. How can I tell? All tests are still zero. I have brown algae now.
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Old 09-19-2012, 12:18 PM   #13
 
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Perfect Quantum!. Bicarbonate is an amphoteric ion: gives the proton and turn into the carbonate or take the proton and goes back to carbonic acid. That's why is a buffer. Both statements should have a <----> sign:
H2CO3 <-----> H+ and HCO3-
HCO3- <------> H+ and CO3--

Now back to my question: What is the fate of Carbonic acid in a planted tank since plants are using the CO2 during the day, removing the Carbonic acid? I assume that plants are not releasing it all back at night. They need CO2 to grow, making sugars and all organic stuff during photosynthesis.

Last edited by corina savin; 09-19-2012 at 12:26 PM.. Reason: did not finish
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:10 PM   #14
 
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I will try to replace the pink tube. I have 1.44 watts per gallon, something considered moderate light.
Watts per gallon is only pertinent with specific lighting and certain sized tanks. I have less than 1 w/g on my 115g, 90g, 33g and 20g tanks, I have very slightly over 1 w/g on my 70g, and I have 2 w/g on my 10g. Yet all are basically identical in plant growth. It depends upon the type of light, and the volume. Watts is only the measurement of the amount of energy a tube or bulb uses to produce its light. Most lighting now available is much more intense that say 20 years ago when this "guide" was thought up.

Quote:
Not all plants are displaying the level of growth seen in Wisteria.
Not all plants grow at the same rate. Stem plants tend to grow faster, thus requiring more light and more nutrients. Surface plants grow fastest of all, because they are closer to the light and can assimilate CO2 directly from the air which is a much faster process than from water; and naturally they require good liquid nutrient fertilization to balance this. Low-light requiring plants such as crypts, Java Fern, mosses, Anubias, etc, naturally grow much slower.

Quote:
I agree with the substrate. It suppose to provide iron but I could not detect any when I tested the water for iron (I was suspecting high iron level because of certain plant growth, normal Gh but low Kh...Calcium carbonate should increase both).
Iron is only one of 17 necessary nutrients, and it is one of the micro-nutrients on top of that. This is another of the old "guides" that arose two or so decades ago, when laterite layers under the substrate were thought to improve plant growth, but we now know they don't unless everything else is increased to balance. Plus, an excess of iron can cause plants to shut down assimilation of other essential nutrients, and vice versa. Balance again. And, iron is a heavy metal and thus highly toxic to all forms of life so you don't want it at levels beyond what is necessary for the plants.

And remember, KH has absolutely no impact on plants or fish.

Quote:
Did I mention that I insert some API Root tab at the start of the tank? Oh, yes, did that also, looking for plants to grow quick to cycle my tank smoothly. Now I want them to stop.
The API root tabs have some problems as other members have found out. In future, use the Seachem Flourish Tabs. And do not disturb the API tabs as they can create a real mess in the water.

Plant growth is in direct relation to light and nutrients, but if they are thriving and algae is not, the balance is likely there. As I noted earlier, soe plants grow faster, which is one reason I do not use stem plants much.

Quote:
Is my tank cycled? It is 1 month old. How can I tell? All tests are still zero. I have brown algae now.
The nitrification bacteria cycle can establish in anywhere from 2 to 8 weeks normally, depending upon many factors unique to each aquarium. With live plants of course you will (or should not) every detect ammonia or nitrite above zero, since the plants are using most of the ammonia (ammonium) and what gets taken up by the bacteria is too minimal for our basic test kits to read. All tanks "cycle," though in this case it is undetectable. Nitrate may or may not be present, this again depends upon the tank's biology (fish load, feeding, plant numbers and species).

Brown algae, or more correctly diatoms, is common in new tanks, during the first 2-3 months. It should then be gone. Remove it from plant leaves (it is easy to get off with your fingers during the water change). Most of the so-called "alage" eating fish will devour it; otos, Farlowella, Bristlenose, etc. However, I don't recommend buying fish just for this, as they add to the tank load and when this runs out you have to feed them something. But if you like these fish and have space, they will deal with diatoms (and common green algae, but no other kind).

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Old 09-19-2012, 01:45 PM   #15
 
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Thank you for shedding some light on my new tank, Byron.
I will continue to read your posts as I think you are not only knowledgeable but a good educator, articulated and well oriented in this hobby
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:14 PM   #16
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corina savin View Post
Perfect Quantum!. Bicarbonate is an amphoteric ion: gives the proton and turn into the carbonate or take the proton and goes back to carbonic acid. That's why is a buffer. Both statements should have a <----> sign:
H2CO3 <-----> H+ and HCO3-
HCO3- <------> H+ and CO3--

Now back to my question: What is the fate of Carbonic acid in a planted tank since plants are using the CO2 during the day, removing the Carbonic acid? I assume that plants are not releasing it all back at night. They need CO2 to grow, making sugars and all organic stuff during photosynthesis.
CO2 occurs naturally in the aquarium from the respiration of fish, plants and bacteria, but this is minimal; the vast majority of natural CO2 comes from the breakdown of organics by bacteria (snails assist in this too) which primarily occurs in the substrate where the greatest concentration of organics and bacteria exist.

These processes creating CO2 are continuous, so there is a continual buildup of CO2. Carbonic acid is created, and in the absence of buffers lowers the pH.

During sufficient light, plants photosynthesize (provided all necessary nutrients are present) and in the natural planted tank they use the CO2 as their prime source for carbon. This reduces the carbonic acid, and the pH rises. Some plants, but not all, can also use bicarbonates, which has the effect of softening the water so the GH can lower as the pH rises. Depending upon the number and species of plants, photosynthesis may or may not exhaust the sources of carbon. When light (or nutrients) is no longer available, or if the carbon is exhausted as is usually the first thing to occur in a natural (low-tech) system if light is not being controlled correctly, photosynthesis ceases. During darkness the CO2 and carbonic acid rebuild from the continuous processes mentioned earlier.

So the cycle runs every 24 hours, assuming normal periods of daylight and darkness; those who use the "siesta" lighting method create this cycle in shorter periods, but the above is why it usually works to prevent algae.

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Old 09-22-2012, 01:48 PM   #17
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corina savin View Post
Perfect Quantum!. Bicarbonate is an amphoteric ion: gives the proton and turn into the carbonate or take the proton and goes back to carbonic acid. That's why is a buffer. Both statements should have a <----> sign:
H2CO3 <-----> H+ and HCO3-
HCO3- <------> H+ and CO3--

Now back to my question: What is the fate of Carbonic acid in a planted tank since plants are using the CO2 during the day, removing the Carbonic acid? I assume that plants are not releasing it all back at night. They need CO2 to grow, making sugars and all organic stuff during photosynthesis.
most CO2 remains in solution rather than forming H2CO3, of the carbonic acid present some will depronate (only above pH 4) to become bicarbonate (the amount depends on pH, about 50/50 at pH 6.4) - depronation of bicarbonate does not occur until pH 8.3 and higher

as CO2 is added or removed the various reactions will be driven one direction or the other toward equilibrium - this is an open system

CO2(g) <--> CO2(aq)

CO2 + H2O <--> H2CO3

H2CO3 <--> H+ and HCO3-
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:22 PM   #18
 
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Thank you Quantum. I am one step closer to understanding how aquarium chemistry works....
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