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New 29g planted log

10K views 103 replies 10 participants last post by  Jbrofish8 
#1 ·
Well, I thought I'd make a log of my 2nd planted tank. This is a tank I got for my (early) birthday present.

I learned a lot from my first planted tank, and I really wanted to go for a more natural looking aquascape this time around.

So far, this tank has had its MAJOR ups and down.

I had the tank set up for 2 weeks and then last friday I woke up to a massive crack in my tank and water spilling on my floor. It was NOT a fun day. Here are some before and after pictures of that. :p
 

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#2 ·
I replaced the tank, thankfully, just in time for my plant shipment to arrive.

So heres where I am now.

I've added 7 lemon tetra who I THINK are exhibiting spawning behavior. There are a couple who are chasing each other around the tank. They then will *almost* lay on the substrate in the front left corner with that needle-leaf ludwigia and rub up against each other.

Is that what this is? Ive never seen it before in my other tank with my glowlights or blue tetra. Its very weird.

If they are spawning, what are the chances of any of the fry making it? All I have in the tank right now are these 7 lemons.
 

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#3 ·
So Im worried about my tetra...

I added 7 lemon tetra on Saturday. They seemed okay that night and the next morning.

On Sunday I noticed them all swimming in the bottom right corner..they occasionally will swim to the other side of the tank but the majority of their time is spent in the corner. They swim in the middle to bottom section of the corner so I dont think its an oxygen issue.

I came home today and found one of the tetra dead in the same corner.. Ive inspected them all for ich or any signs of illness and they all look healthy. Now there are 5 of them swimming in the corner and 1 of them is kind of hovering at the top of the tank in my floated plants near the surface.

I tested my water last night and ammonia was 0, nitrite was 0 and nitrate was around 0. pH is about 7.4 and the temp is at 78. I have very soft water as well.

Tonight I tested my water and the ammonia was at about .025 ppm, nitrite was 0 and ph was still 7.4. I did a water change tonight just in case.

Im not sure what is going on. I'm wondering if the guy at the fish store might have hurt some of them. When he was catching the last 2, he sort of pinned them down against the gravel with his net...they seemed okay at the time, once he put them in the bag. Could this be a possible reason? Im really at a loss here.

This was my second planted tank, and as Byron advised, you can add fish once your tank is heavily planted. I havent lost a single fish in my first tank with this method. Was it beginners luck? :(
 
#4 ·
When I woke up this morning I thought for sure I'd have at least 1 dead fish.

Turns out, they all seem fine..

Im really confused. The lights are still out in the tank, but none of them are in the corner, and the one tetra who was hovering diagonally at the top under the floating plants seems to have returned to normal... I thought for sure he wouldn't make it through the night.

I'm really puzzled at this... at ideas?
 
#5 ·
First off, that is a very nice aquascape. Well done.:welldone:

Now to respond to your questions. What you describe in post 2 is likely spawning behaviour. Changes in water parameters such as what occurred from the store tank to your aquarium can often trigger this, because it replicates what occurs in the fish's natural habitat. Spawning with forest fish almost always occurs at the start of the rainy season when the streams are inundated with cooler water but also water with a very different pH. Difficult species can often be spawned by substantially altering the water parameters.

As for fry surviving, possible but unlikely. In very thickly-planted tanks [let those plants really grow in;-)] eggs will be scattered in vegetation [Java Moss is ideal for this] and often survive predation if the fish are few and well fed. Fry can find microscopic plankton in heavily-planted tanks and will suddenly appear. Usually just a few, unless you specifically work to raise them with infusoria, removing the other fish, etc. Some fish are more proficient at this than others. I have dozens of Emperor Tetra fry that have survived over the past several months from many spawnings. They just suddenly show up, usually 2, 3, or 4 at about 1/4 inch when I first notice them. I have had one fry appear from many species of characin over the years. Another benefit of well-planted tanks.

The fish sound fine. The one dead may well have been due to injury, it is very easy to injure fish with a net, I have done it. If the others do well, after a couple days i would see if the store will replace the one. Some stores ask for the "corpse" and a water sample, some don't. Worth a try; after all, they want your continued business.

Byron.
 
#6 ·
Thanks Byron! Ive learned a lot through your guidance. :)

I have one more question, Should I try to get a few more Lemons? I only have 6 right now and I want to get more anyways, but should I wait for the fish to settle down or go ahead and grab a few more?

Id like to try to get at least 9.. so maybe 3 more?
 
#7 ·
Thanks Byron! Ive learned a lot through your guidance. :)

I have one more question, Should I try to get a few more Lemons? I only have 6 right now and I want to get more anyways, but should I wait for the fish to settle down or go ahead and grab a few more?

Id like to try to get at least 9.. so maybe 3 more?
When I lose a new fish from a group I usually wait a day or two to see if there will be more. Find out if the store will replace the one, and let them know you want to buy a couple more as well. So 3 more will be fine. When I can, I always buy shoaling fish in groups of 3 or more at a time, they settle better.
 
#8 ·
So I went today and got some more lemon tetra. I thought I was getting 4.. Turns out they gave me 1 very pale head and tail light tetra.

Now that I see him in my tank, his black spots on his head and tail are starting to come out. What do I do? I dont really want these fish in my tank.. Will he be fine by himself with my 9 lemon tetra? I know they need a shoal, should I just try to take him back? Its too late tonight and I'm really dreading trying to catch him in my planted tank. >.<
 
#9 ·
I went ahead and added the little head and tail light tetra to the tank. Hes shoaling tightly with the group of lemons right now..I feel terrible that hes by himself though. I just dont know what I should do..its a pretty long drive to take back just 1 fish, especially since I got all the Lemon tetra they had so I wouldn't even be able to trade him.

Id get a shoal of head and tail lights if they weren't almost the EXACT same color as lemon tetra. Plus I want a pair of dwarf cichlids of some type and I'm not sure if 2 shoals of tetra would work.

So far my stocking ideas are:

Lemon tetra
3 otos (later on once established)
and im leaning towards a pair of apistos of some sort.

Anyone see any issues with my stock list? Would my tank allow for 2 shoals of fish along with the apistos? ( Sorry, i sort of got off topic here..)
 
#10 ·
I've had this experience a couple of times, getting fish in the bag I didn't want. I've never taken them back, provided they are not a problem species. Obviously they should be in a group, but...

Yes you can have two groups, but make sure you really want the Head and Tail Light before getting more. They don't remain "small," check the profile. Not a problem fish with what you are planning. Shouldn't be the same colour though, Lemon Tetra will turn lemon yellow and the H&T is more gray with the brilliant eye and caudal patch. I have a group of the much rarer Hemigrammus pulcher, very similar but more colourful, one of my favourite tetra but not seen often (around here anyway). The H&T would actually be a nice dither fish for dwarf cichlids. But only if you like and want them.

I'd think again about otos, assuming you are getting them for algae.
 
#11 ·
I'd prefer to not have the head and tail lights. He seems okay so far, not being aggressive and like I said, hes sticking with the other tetra. Of course I know this can change over time so for now I'll just keep a close watch.

I wanted the oto's not really for algae, just because I really love them in my other planted. They're one of my favorite fish to watch. I dont have to have them though.

The profile for the apistos we have listed says that a harem will work in a 24in tank. Will 1 male and 3 females be okay with the tetra in the tank as well? Would I still be able to get another shoal, even with the extra 2 females?

Also, do the majority of the apistos species prefer a harem?
 
#12 ·
I'd prefer to not have the head and tail lights. He seems okay so far, not being aggressive and like I said, hes sticking with the other tetra. Of course I know this can change over time so for now I'll just keep a close watch.

I wanted the oto's not really for algae, just because I really love them in my other planted. They're one of my favorite fish to watch. I dont have to have them though.

The profile for the apistos we have listed says that a harem will work in a 24in tank. Will 1 male and 3 females be okay with the tetra in the tank as well? Would I still be able to get another shoal, even with the extra 2 females?

Also, do the majority of the apistos species prefer a harem?
Otos are fine; I thought maybe the algae was the reason, and that is 3 more fish.

Some Apisto species are best in a pair, others in a harem. In a 29g you can still have another group of small peaceful characins whichever, depending upon species of both the characin and the apisto (thinking size and temperament of both). Your live plants help out too.
 
#13 ·
So I've ordered my first fish online.

A harem of double red Apistogramma cacatuoides. They are tank raised in 7.5 pH which will work great with my parameters. I'm really excited. The seller has sent me a picture of the male I will be receiving. Hes still a very young male so he'll color up nicely. He also sent me a picture of the father, who is gorgeous! I've been talking with him through email about the species and his experience with them as well as my newness to shipping fish.. hes defiantly made me feel more comfortable with the whole thing.

Here is my (soon to be) new male. The last picture is of the father.
 

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#16 ·
Thank you!! :)

This is my second planted tank, and I learned a lot from my first about plant placement and what not. Another thing I like to do is look at other peoples aquascapes. Google planted tanks and just look look look. It can really help you get some ideas of what works and what doesn't.

In my first tank, I was so excited to have plants I just sort of got whatever I thought looked pretty just to have a variety. In this tank I really held back and tried to get plants I knew would look nice in my tank and limit myself to just a few species. My tank isn't perfect by any means, but its definitely an improvement from my first, I think at least. =)
 
#17 ·
Your young male looks like a beauty and is going to be a great addition to your beautiful tank. Take some pictures when it is fully stocked! I got to see it :)
 
#18 ·
I will! Im very excited about my apistos. Ive got their cichlid flakes and a variety of frozen foods ready to go!

Heres a quick update on the tank, I added an ozelot sword and 1 more anubias.My star grass seems to have not done well through the shipping. Some of its leaves have been turning clear since I stuck it in the tank the first night. Is it done for or might it survive? (its the plant on the far right). I ordered some moss a few weeks ago that has apparently gotten lost in the mail. My plan was to cover the top of the cave with it, but I sort of like the color of the slate right now so I'm not sure where i'll put the moss. Any ideas?
 

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#19 ·
That is indeed a lovely natural aquascape. I do like that.

I've never had stargrass, I would leave it and see what happens, it may well recover. Shipping can really set back plants.
 
#20 ·
Thanks :)

How do you decide when a plant is too far gone? There are still pieces of green leaves and stems more towards the center of the plant, so Im holding out that it might recover. Should I pull off all the clear leaves? There are quite a lot of them.
 
#21 ·
If you feel you need to pull hem off go ahead, I believe they are dead anyway.... Again OMG that is the most beautiful tank I have seen here so far! Not to offend anyone.
 
#22 ·
Thank you :) Thats really nice! But there are tons of tanks on this site that look better than mine. :p

Heres my problem, maybe someone can help me out, cause I'm sort of at a loss.

Last Monday I had 8 Lemon Tetra and 1 H&TL tetra (sold to me as a lemon). Im now down to 3 Lemons and 1 h&TL.

I dont get it, they are all acting "normal". Eating, swimming around the tank. Then the next day I come home from work and find 1 dead. I cant figure out what could be killing these Lemon tetra.

My parameters are : ammonia 0, nitrite, 0, nitrate 0. 7.4 pH, 78F. Soft water. I've tested my water almost every day since last Monday and I've had no issues with spikes. I did a routine water change yesterday.

The only things going into the tank are Flourish Comprehensive, Seachem Prime, and some root tabs made by Sera called FlorePlus.

One thing I will say is that I dont usually buy fish from the LFS I got these from. I got 3 otos for my first tank and 2 of them died. Thats the last I've bought there until these lemons. Other than the otos, in the 4 months that my first tank has been set up, Ive only lost 1 other fish.

Any ideas? Since my numbers have dwindled down, I've noticed an increase in "aggression" between the Lemons and Im wondering it maybe this might be the reason for the last few deaths. But just yesterday after my water change they were spawning in my plants again. Today I came home to one more dead tetra.

Hopefully someone can help me. There are no lemon tetras at any of the 3 LFS in my area so I cant increase their numbers without ordering fish. There are also no H&TL tetra at any of the stores either. What should I do?
 
#24 ·
Could be the internal damage issue mentioned previously in this thread. Or the fish may have had something. Or something in the water, though your numbers are fine. You're not overdosing Flourish are you? The amount on the label which is about 1/2 teaspoon for your 29g. once a week?

Check the tank pH prior to and then about an hour after the next water change to see if there is much of a discrepancy. Just a thought. Tap water can change suddenly.

The normal aggression for most tetra does not lead to deaths, and certainly not so fast. You would more likely see fish "hiding" from the aggressor first. I've had this with Emperor Tetra. No problems with the Head & Tail Light?
 
#25 ·
Once a week on the flourish, half a capful is what I've been doing. In a previous issue you had me set out my tap for 24 hours and then test it. It was around 7.5 out of the tap so I wouldn't think that would be the issue.

The Head and tail light seems to be the least aggressive of them all. He swims with the lemons so I don't think hes the issue.

It seems like this is the only LFS that gets the lemons in stock regularly. Id like to have the Lemons but I'm getting so tired of them dying I almost want to give up on them and get fish from the store I usually use. Which sadly is a petsmart but I haven't had any issues with their fish, yet.

What would you recommend I do?
 
#26 ·
Once a week on the flourish, half a capful is what I've been doing. In a previous issue you had me set out my tap for 24 hours and then test it. It was around 7.5 out of the tap so I wouldn't think that would be the issue.

The Head and tail light seems to be the least aggressive of them all. He swims with the lemons so I don't think hes the issue.

It seems like this is the only LFS that gets the lemons in stock regularly. Id like to have the Lemons but I'm getting so tired of them dying I almost want to give up on them and get fish from the store I usually use. Which sadly is a petsmart but I haven't had any issues with their fish, yet.

What would you recommend I do?
My thinking on the pH was more in case the tap water changes; this can occur. It would have to be significant. As I said, just another possibility, ruled out but that's one less.

As you're not going to be able to up the Lemons anyway, consider another shoaling fish for the tank and try those. From a different store if possible.

Are there any signs of trouble with any of the fish before they die? I'm thinking of things like inactivity, lethargy, resting on plants or on the substrate or at the surface, eating differently or not eating, closed fins, loss of colour...
 
#27 · (Edited)
Some of the first few that died didn't really swim much or eat. They stayed put in the same spot in the tank. Maybe slightly rapid breathing? Color was fine, no signs of illness other than that. I thought it might be stress? These few died within the first 1-3 days of being in the tank.

The last fish that have died have seemed 100% fine. They were eating, swimming, acting like the tetra in my other tank, then when the light comes on they're dead.

I know that this LFS adds some sort of stress coat to their bags. I dont think they measure it either, just pump it in from a large bottle. Thats the only thing I can think of that is different than my other LFS other than water/possible illness.

Also, should I try to return the lemons I have or will they be fine? Assuming they survive.
 
#28 ·
Some of the first few that died didn't really swim much or eat. They stayed put in the same spot in the tank. Maybe slightly rapid breathing? Color was fine, no signs of illness other than that. I thought it might be stress? These few died within the first 1-3 days of being in the tank.

The last fish that have died have seemed 100% fine. They were eating, swimming, acting like the tetra in my other tank, then when the light comes on they're dead.

I know that this LFS adds some sort of stress coat to their bags. I dont think they measure it either, just pump it in from a large bottle. Thats the only thing I can think of that is different than my other LFS other than water/possible illness.

Also, should I try to return the lemons I have or will they be fine? Assuming they survive.
I would keep them, as you like them. If they pull out of whatever it is, or aren't affected, they'll manage.
 
#29 ·
Would you say this was most likely an issue with the LFS in some way?

Im worried because I have some apistos arriving Friday. My parameters are all good. The snails are alive as well, so I dont think its an issue of something getting in the tank that isnt supposed to be there. Should I just try some fish from a different store and see what happens?

Also, this may be a silly question. But what makes a good dither fish?
 
#30 ·
Would you say this was most likely an issue with the LFS in some way?

Im worried because I have some apistos arriving Friday. My parameters are all good. The snails are alive as well, so I dont think its an issue of something getting in the tank that isnt supposed to be there. Should I just try some fish from a different store and see what happens?

Also, this may be a silly question. But what makes a good dither fish?
I honestly have no idea what is wrong with the Lemons. It can be so many things. One tests the water and nothing is obvious there, unless there is something toxic from somewhere and our tests will not show this. I personally will not buy fish from most chain stores. But I am lucky to have a few good true fish stores run by hobbyists near me.

I recently bought 8 pygmy hatchets, wild caught. Within 3 days five had died. I waited a few more days, then went to the store and replaced them (I know the owner, she just replaced them) and got 2 more, so then I had 10. They are fine; active, interacting, eating like mad now for over 2 weeks...who knows. The others may have been still under stress from the shipping and another move was just too much for them.

I would not add more fish until after the Apistos settle, since anything new is always risking ich if nothing else. You can add other characins later.

Good dither fish should be peaceful, not prone to nipping, and not too active. Cichlids, except perhaps for the rift lake species which are something quite unique, are quiet, sedate fish. They can be easily intimidated and frightened, notwithstanding their usually larger size (thinking of many of the larger CA species). Pencilfish tend to make good dither fish for the SA dwarf cichlid species, and hatchetfish. Plus any of the quiet tetra.

Time for supper.:)
 
#31 ·
Thanks for your help as always, Byron.

I credit a lot of what I've learned these past few months to reading your posts on this forum. So thanks for that. :)

Hopefully all will go smoothly with my Apistos and I can look into finding some pencil fish. I've never seen them in this area at any of the LFS around here. I was looking at trying harlequin rasboras or maybe i'll up my h&tl's if I can ever find them again. :D
 
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