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Need A Way To Lower Nitrates And Finish Cycle

This is a discussion on Need A Way To Lower Nitrates And Finish Cycle within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Originally Posted by AbbeysDad > I don't think the amount of sodium nitrite or sodium nitrate that may be used to preserve fish food ...

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Need A Way To Lower Nitrates And Finish Cycle
Old 05-22-2012, 10:27 AM   #21
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbeysDad View Post
> I don't think the amount of sodium nitrite or sodium nitrate that may be used to preserve fish food is significant enough to cause a problem like this - if it was, everyone would have this problem. Ammonia/ammonium -->Nitrites --> Nitrates in the aquarium are typically the N2 process of decomposing waste products.
I've seen people have high nitrates trying to cycle with fish food, so it's not a matter of everyone, but only those cycling with fish food. I don't think any of us have any idea how much fish food has been fed to the tank, nor do we even know what brand. Under normal circumstances I agree, but this is certainly not normal use.

The problem here is high nitrites, not high nitrates. The high nitrites have stalled the cycle, which is common with fishless cycles. Well, common enough.

If you are saying that the food has gone from ammonia to nitrite to nitrate, then the tank would be cycled. Moving the biomax out would have negatively impacted the colony for sure (if it was ever completely there), but it's not the only colony in the tank. I have a hard time believing that that level of nitrate could be produced from denitrification in a fishless tank in a couple of weeks time. But again, I think focusing on the nitrates takes away from the more pressing nitrite issue.


Nemo - have you done a water change yet?
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Old 05-22-2012, 11:26 AM   #22
 
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Originally Posted by jaysee View Post
....from denitrification....
Ooops - nitrification.




Ammonia and nitrites have to be kept below 5 ppm during the cycling process for the normal bacterias to develop. At the higher concentrations, different bacteria species take over. There aren't just 2 strains of bacteria in the colony - there are many that are specialized to work in specific conditions.

As far as the nitrate readings - the nitrate test converts nitrate back into nitrite, so it's really pointless to be measuring nitrates when there are nitrites.

Last edited by jaysee; 05-22-2012 at 11:40 AM..
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Old 05-22-2012, 03:04 PM   #23
 
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I've seen people have high nitrates trying to cycle with fish food, so it's not a matter of everyone, but only those cycling with fish food. I don't think any of us have any idea how much fish food has been fed to the tank, nor do we even know what brand. Under normal circumstances I agree, but this is certainly not normal use.

The problem here is high nitrites, not high nitrates. The high nitrites have stalled the cycle, which is common with fishless cycles. Well, common enough.

If you are saying that the food has gone from ammonia to nitrite to nitrate, then the tank would be cycled. Moving the biomax out would have negatively impacted the colony for sure (if it was ever completely there), but it's not the only colony in the tank. I have a hard time believing that that level of nitrate could be produced from denitrification in a fishless tank in a couple of weeks time. But again, I think focusing on the nitrates takes away from the more pressing nitrite issue.


Nemo - have you done a water change yet?
No. I am thinking in terms of 25% and 25%, which on 80 ppm would yeild a decrease of nitrates to 45 ppm. This would also have an effect on nitrite.

Is it really true that the nitrate test changes it back to nitrite and so incorporates the nitrite into the result? Not that it's very significant...
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Old 05-22-2012, 03:08 PM   #24
 
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Yes it's really true.
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Old 05-22-2012, 03:17 PM   #25
 
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Please don't take offence but sometimes I think we're all talking a different language in this thread.....

What have you done regarding this issue Nemo?

Have you started water changing yet? Have you still got 80ppm nitrate and 5ppm nitrite? Have you looked into a bacterial feed yet? And have you added any plants? These are all things that are going to get you to the point of putting a fish in your tank... Worry not about test conversions, and what not and try these things out, as I am positive it doesn't need to be this difficult..

There's a lot to be said for filter seed, planted fish in cycling.... So much easier IMO

With respect
Simon.
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Old 05-22-2012, 03:55 PM   #26
 
Simon,
Thanks for putting a flame - you know. You are right, as you usually are. But it's hard to do things. I'm fully prepared to change water tonight - wanted to get some feedback. I'll make a call now to Debby's Pet Land and see if they have the plants - I know Petco doesn't have them. I'm also prepared to buy a bacteria-in-a-bottle, even though I know some don't work.

I was a little reticent about doing a water change because someone wrote not to, but I have got more information, like the nitrite at peak should be around 2.5 ppm not 5 ppm.

Anyways I really appreciate everyone's help and advice and I'll try to take some action - I will do what I said today and try and get those plants from Debby's

Thank you,
Steve


Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymon78 View Post
Please don't take offence but sometimes I think we're all talking a different language in this thread.....

What have you done regarding this issue Nemo?

Have you started water changing yet? Have you still got 80ppm nitrate and 5ppm nitrite? Have you looked into a bacterial feed yet? And have you added any plants? These are all things that are going to get you to the point of putting a fish in your tank... Worry not about test conversions, and what not and try these things out, as I am positive it doesn't need to be this difficult..

There's a lot to be said for filter seed, planted fish in cycling.... So much easier IMO

With respect
Simon.
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Old 05-22-2012, 04:31 PM   #27
 
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Originally Posted by Nemo the Clownfish View Post
Simon,
Thanks for putting a flame - you know. You are right, as you usually are. But it's hard to do things. I'm fully prepared to change water tonight - wanted to get some feedback. I'll make a call now to Debby's Pet Land and see if they have the plants - I know Petco doesn't have them. I'm also prepared to buy a bacteria-in-a-bottle, even though I know some don't work.

I was a little reticent about doing a water change because someone wrote not to, but I have got more information, like the nitrite at peak should be around 2.5 ppm not 5 ppm.

Anyways I really appreciate everyone's help and advice and I'll try to take some action - I will do what I said today and try and get those plants from Debby's

Thank you,
Steve
I appreciate its not easy to get the stuff you need if you don't have a great fish retailer nearby, that stock a beautiful array of CO2 fed lush green plants, and all the fish paraphernalia one might require... Dealing with these big chain pet stores must be tiresome.

Real plants are not for everyone, its not essential you put them in your tank. Its merely a suggestion, and it WILL help things if that is the ways you wanted to go in the future anyway.. but if you can't buy good plants nearby you might as well not bother, unless your gonna buy online. Many people have tanks with fake plants and that is up to them.. decision is yours at the end of the day. Real plants do require a degree of looking after, and possible feeding if need be. but thats another matter all together.

as for bacteria in a bottle, I used API quick start when I started my tank. I can't categorically say it helped me, one of my very first posts was about this subject as I seemed to have cycled my tank in about 2-3 weeks. And I was asking people if it was possible etc. but I also had 10 live plants in from halfway through week 1. Some say the bacteria could have helped, others swear its the live plants. I also added 7 glow light tetra to feed the bacteria with ammonia. So had fish in from end of week 1. I still have all 7 of those tetra, and they have doubled in size and are all healthy. (as far as I can tell)

I think Abbeysdad mentioned a few brands, I think maybe Seachem stability is one?? if you look back at his posts you'll see. He is an advocate of these bacteria in a bottle and I am inclined to agree with him, although some products are better than others. So theres 2 brands you could try.

My point earlier was just get on and do something about it, rather than waiting for other peoples opinions. As you have noticed already you will get a myriad of opinions and information on here, most times only confusing the matter as people battle out their points of view. At the end of the day, your not going to do anyone any harm by doing something wrong. There is no fish in there, so you got nothing to loose. and its seems as though the process has stalled anyway, so loosing a few weeks and taking a different approach to the cycle may not be such a bad thing......

good luck.
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