my ghost are turning opague and rcs are missing.help!! - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #1 of 12 Old 08-12-2010, 11:42 AM Thread Starter
my ghost are turning opague and rcs are missing.help!!

my ghost shrimp are turning opaque one by one and my rcs are all but missing in action.waters fine very clean and clear.din't add and chemicals but fert.the temps at 28 degrees and i removed the striped rapheal but i don't think they made the ghosts slowly die by killing off their body tissue starting from the tail area.any ideas?

5x2x2 aro,highfin bat,fei feng,ST,albino tinfoil,c.perch
4x1.5x1.5 planted tetras,harlequins,
otto,WMM,2 types of celebes rainbows,rcs,amano, bamboo,red ramhorns,MTS
3.5x2.5x2 flowerhorn,pleco
3x1.5x1.5 russel's lion,blue cleaner,sixline and leopard wrasse,maroon clown pair,green chromis,scorpion,tiger cowrie,turbo,lyretail anthias,jewel,anemone,star polyp,marbled and giant green mushi,zoa
2x1x1 nano sw shrimps
22 May 2012
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post #2 of 12 Old 08-12-2010, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by kitten_penang View Post
my ghost shrimp are turning opaque one by one and my rcs are all but missing in action.waters fine very clean and clear.din't add and chemicals but fert.the temps at 28 degrees and i removed the striped rapheal but i don't think they made the ghosts slowly die by killing off their body tissue starting from the tail area.any ideas?
Not enough info really... If all you added was the fert. then I would usually start there, but I'm assuming since you KEEP shrimp you know what brand of fert. to use and that none of them contain nickel or copper in any amount.
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post #3 of 12 Old 08-13-2010, 08:52 AM Thread Starter
omg thanks for telling me i just added another 35 into the tank. great i had copper in the fert.so now i cant use liquid fert.but what about the fert soil? im not sure it contains copper or nickle. what does the copper do to the shrimp? umm is there any other fert that doesn't contain copper?

5x2x2 aro,highfin bat,fei feng,ST,albino tinfoil,c.perch
4x1.5x1.5 planted tetras,harlequins,
otto,WMM,2 types of celebes rainbows,rcs,amano, bamboo,red ramhorns,MTS
3.5x2.5x2 flowerhorn,pleco
3x1.5x1.5 russel's lion,blue cleaner,sixline and leopard wrasse,maroon clown pair,green chromis,scorpion,tiger cowrie,turbo,lyretail anthias,jewel,anemone,star polyp,marbled and giant green mushi,zoa
2x1x1 nano sw shrimps
22 May 2012
kitten_penang is offline  
post #4 of 12 Old 08-13-2010, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by kitten_penang View Post
omg thanks for telling me i just added another 35 into the tank. great i had copper in the fert.so now i cant use liquid fert.but what about the fert soil? im not sure it contains copper or nickle. what does the copper do to the shrimp? umm is there any other fert that doesn't contain copper?
The copper (or nickel or zinc) accumulates in the liver and poisons the critter. Anything over 1 PPM is extremely lethal to shrimp and all other invertebrates. I don't know any fertilizers that don't contain copper off hand, but I'll do some looking around.
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post #5 of 12 Old 08-13-2010, 12:21 PM
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if you want to get rid or the copper then you should either use one of the water conditioners that removes them like aquasafe, temporarily put some carbon in your filter.
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post #6 of 12 Old 08-13-2010, 07:36 PM
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There is no certainty that the copper is causing the problem, I'm not saying it may not be, just a caution before jumping too far.

The level of copper in Seachem's Flourish [which I believe is kitten's fert, though I may be wrong] is not sufficient to cause any issues with fish, plants or invertebrates, provided the recommended dose (once or twice max per week) is not exceeded.

Plants detoxify copper in trace amounts, just as some water conditioners (those that detoxify heavy metals). In both cases, we are talking trace amounts, the limited amount of copper (or other heavy metals) that would normally possibly be in tap water. Health authorities keep fairly close monitoring if such metals are naturally present in their source water. Of course, copper plumbing as most homes in NA have can be a source of high copper, esp if new. I know of aquarists who have "suddenly" lost all fish and plants due to new copper water pipes. If you get a green residue from the tap running in the bath tub for instance, that is copper.

Most ich remedies are copper based and contain far more copper than fertilizers; which is why they warn you not to use them with invertebrates, plants, and half-strength for sensitive fish (characins, catfish, loaches, etc).

A note on the plants point, plants assimilate copper as a nutrient, but they also "take up" excess copper and detoxify it, as they do excess iron, nickel, manganese, or whatever. [Another benefit of plants in fish tanks.] Again, this is assuming trace amounts; we're not talking polluted toxic water that has discharge from a mine or something, but water that comes out of our taps.

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]

Last edited by Byron; 08-13-2010 at 07:39 PM.
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post #7 of 12 Old 08-13-2010, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Byron View Post
There is no certainty that the copper is causing the problem, I'm not saying it may not be, just a caution before jumping too far.

The level of copper in Seachem's Flourish [which I believe is kitten's fert, though I may be wrong] is not sufficient to cause any issues with fish, plants or invertebrates, provided the recommended dose (once or twice max per week) is not exceeded.

Plants detoxify copper in trace amounts, just as some water conditioners (those that detoxify heavy metals). In both cases, we are talking trace amounts, the limited amount of copper (or other heavy metals) that would normally possibly be in tap water. Health authorities keep fairly close monitoring if such metals are naturally present in their source water. Of course, copper plumbing as most homes in NA have can be a source of high copper, esp if new. I know of aquarists who have "suddenly" lost all fish and plants due to new copper water pipes. If you get a green residue from the tap running in the bath tub for instance, that is copper.

Most ich remedies are copper based and contain far more copper than fertilizers; which is why they warn you not to use them with invertebrates, plants, and half-strength for sensitive fish (characins, catfish, loaches, etc).

A note on the plants point, plants assimilate copper as a nutrient, but they also "take up" excess copper and detoxify it, as they do excess iron, nickel, manganese, or whatever. [Another benefit of plants in fish tanks.] Again, this is assuming trace amounts; we're not talking polluted toxic water that has discharge from a mine or something, but water that comes out of our taps.

Byron.
Only reason I assumed fertilizer was because kitten said no other chemicals were added to the tank... on purpose at least.
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post #8 of 12 Old 08-13-2010, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliforniaFishkeeper View Post
Only reason I assumed fertilizer was because kitten said no other chemicals were added to the tank... on purpose at least.
No problem; I just wanted to make the point. In several threads here, mention has been made now and then of copper in ferts, so it is a common misunderstanding and some especially beginning aquarists reading this thread could jump to the erroneous conclusion that plant ferts are bad because of copper. Just to clarify.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #9 of 12 Old 08-14-2010, 02:24 AM Thread Starter
ok so maybe the ferts not the problem havent added ich medication either.the water from the pipe could be and issue.i'll have someone install a filter thats linked to a plastic pipe head instead or i'll let it run in the new sump with carbon that arriving in a few days before i let it into the main tank. my tank has a single carbon catridge in the running over night to take out any last od of heavy metals and the ferts will have to be dosed at half strenght tommorow.to see how it goes.i guess a balance of water,carbon and fert will be needed in the tank as long as all are healthy i'll have and extra thing to looks out for.if theres anyone with more info on shrimp pls let me know.as i want to understand futher whats happening to the shrimps

5x2x2 aro,highfin bat,fei feng,ST,albino tinfoil,c.perch
4x1.5x1.5 planted tetras,harlequins,
otto,WMM,2 types of celebes rainbows,rcs,amano, bamboo,red ramhorns,MTS
3.5x2.5x2 flowerhorn,pleco
3x1.5x1.5 russel's lion,blue cleaner,sixline and leopard wrasse,maroon clown pair,green chromis,scorpion,tiger cowrie,turbo,lyretail anthias,jewel,anemone,star polyp,marbled and giant green mushi,zoa
2x1x1 nano sw shrimps
22 May 2012
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post #10 of 12 Old 08-14-2010, 09:30 AM
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Good Thread, Kitten. I also would like to know more about shrimp. I thought of possibly adding a few Red Cherry Shrimp to my tank as well. I had no idea copper could be an issue for them. I was not sure how my fish would even do with them. I do not want to serve a Shrimp buffet if my fish are the types that would just eat them.
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