Is my 55 overstocked - Page 3 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #21 of 28 Old 03-17-2013, 11:40 PM Thread Starter
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Would any of you guys attempt this stock or a slightly modified version of this stock.
On a totally different note would you think that adding two gbrs to a 29 gallon tank that has two angels and an albino bn pleco an option. Do you think adding them to my 55 or my 29 a better option.
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post #22 of 28 Old 03-17-2013, 11:49 PM
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If your angels are a pair, then I don't think it's a good idea to put any other cichlids in a 29 with them. If they are not a pair, then it will work for as long as the angels want it to.

125 - BGK, chanchito cichlid, pictus cats, silver dollars, palmas bichir
125 - cichlids (severums, bolivian rams, chocolate), rainbows ( turquoise, red), loaches (angelicus, zebra, kuhli and horseface), plecos (BN, RL and clown), denison barbs, tiretrack eel, pearl gouramis, betta
90 - Congo tetras, african knife, upside down cats, spotted ctenopoma, kribensis, delhezzi bichir
2.5 - betta
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post #23 of 28 Old 03-17-2013, 11:54 PM Thread Starter
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If your angels are a pair, then I don't think it's a good idea to put any other cichlids in a 29 with them. If they are not a pair, then it will work for as long as the angels want it to.
They are a pair. However they have not laid eggs in over 2 months. I think I may try and if it doesn't work put them in my 55. Does anyone else have input on this? I'm stubborn and like multiple opinions.

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post #24 of 28 Old 03-17-2013, 11:56 PM
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I think you have enough fish in the 55 as it is, especially with the gourami. I wouldn't combine cichlids and gourami unless it's a much larger tank, as they have a bad habit of suddenly turning on each other.
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post #25 of 28 Old 03-18-2013, 11:38 AM
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I myself won't call 80° an extreme difference from 78 but that's just me. I also checked three websites and two of my books and I believe 78 is fine for rams. Just to confirm something though do you know if there are references for the info in the fish profiles.
My apology for not seeing this and responding sooner, but better late than never when it comes to information.

The difference between 78 and 80 F is very significant for a fish. We humans cannot assess temperature based upon our experiences because being mammals our body internally controls our temperature so that our physiological functions continue. Fish do not have this option. Another factor is constancy; an artificially heated aquarium is far removed from the environment that fish are designed for with respect to their physiology. If you are interested, you can read a bit more about how these external factors affect fish in my article on stress:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/f...um-fish-98852/

I`ll comment on the source for the profile data momentarily; but the given temperature range for each species is the range in which the species will generally manage with respect to the internal physiological processes. As a permanent temperature, mid-range is where it should be; this is the temperature at which the internal processes will function without the fish having to expend additional energy. The upper and lower limits of each range are temporary situations only, meaning that the fish will manage at these extremes but should not be maintained at them continually. When the fish is forced into using additional energy just to carry out the homeostasis, the fish is literally wearing itself out faster. This can weaken the fish, lessen its immune system response, and almost inevitably lead to a shorter-than-normal lifespan. The linked article explains this.

To the profiles: I authored most of the freshwater profiles. I use an extensive range of reliable data sources, the sources of which are ichthyologists, biologists and acknowledged authorities. When it comes to differing data, I indicate this; but otherwise, you can assume that the data is that held by all.

This does not mean that you will not find differing views on the internet. While the internet is an incredible resource tool, the fact remains that anyone with the money can set up a website and promote this or that, with no scientific scrutiny. The reliability of the source is critical. Taking the temperature for the common ram, Mikrogeophagus ramirezi, this should never fall below 80F, and 82F is the preferred temperature. This species has a lifespan of 4 years, but it will rarely if ever reach that at lower temperatures.

Hope this has answered your questions, but feel free to ask further.

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]

Last edited by Byron; 03-18-2013 at 11:42 AM.
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post #26 of 28 Old 03-18-2013, 12:27 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your concern but I'm not too worried too much about temperature. First I did a quick Google and discovered that rams live in rivers with am average temp of 70-88. So since you say they can't live at the extremes shoulnt that be 79 not 82-84. Also my friend who has a 220 with many rams keeps it at 78 and has had the same rams for many years. I also recently read this article
Whaddaya mean, too hot? — Seriously Fish

I also want to add what do you think would be better to out them in my 55 or my 29 or neither and why?

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post #27 of 28 Old 03-18-2013, 02:00 PM Thread Starter
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I think I may have come up with a better combination. I will move one angel from my 29 to my 55. I will move the lemon tetras from the 55 to my 29. I will add two gbr to my 29.

Does this sound like a better combination?

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post #28 of 28 Old 03-18-2013, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by calfishguy View Post
Thanks for your concern but I'm not too worried too much about temperature. First I did a quick Google and discovered that rams live in rivers with am average temp of 70-88. So since you say they can't live at the extremes shoulnt that be 79 not 82-84. Also my friend who has a 220 with many rams keeps it at 78 and has had the same rams for many years. I also recently read this article
Whaddaya mean, too hot? — Seriously Fish
Your mind is obviously made up, so it might be wasting my time, but there will be others reading this thread who may appreciate learning, so I will make a few comments.

I have read that article, and there is a thread on it elsewhere in which I think I commented, but no matter. The writer is careful to point out that there is no absolute, and various factors have to be taken into account. And Rudiger also notes, as I have frequently done, that so-called temperatures of watercourses in the tropical areas are not constant but vary quite a lot, more than many might assume. This variance is dujring each 24 hour period, and during seasons. Which is where the "preferred range" comes in which I mentioned previously. Keeping the fish in a static temperature has consequences, so that temperature has to be carefully considered.

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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