Multiple large tanks and water changes - Page 6
Tropical Fish

Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources » Freshwater Fish and Aquariums » Beginner Freshwater Aquarium » Multiple large tanks and water changes

Multiple large tanks and water changes

This is a discussion on Multiple large tanks and water changes within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Originally Posted by cwmorrow Wow. I through that stuff away when it comes my way. What brand? I'll give this a try. I have ...

Check out these freshwater fish profiles
Black-Winged Hatchetfish
Black-Winged Hatchetfish
Oto Catfish
Oto Catfish
Like Tree7Likes

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools vBmenu Seperating Image Search this Thread vBmenu Seperating Image
Multiple large tanks and water changes
Old 09-14-2012, 12:08 PM   #51
 
Byron's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwmorrow View Post
Wow.
I through that stuff away when it comes my way.
What brand? I'll give this a try.

I have three 55s now and it is a pain.
Throw what stuff away--water conditioner (dechlorinator)?

Which conditioner to use is up to you, but should be based on what you need. In other words, what is in the tap water that needs handling. Most of us on municipal water in NA have chlorine in our water, and every conditioner out there will handle this. Next is chloramine, which many (but not all) municipalities also use, so if yours does, the conditioner must be able to deal with chloramine (many do, but not all).

Beyond the above (which is usually the most serious and often only issues), there are conditioners that detoxify heavy metals, and most will do this. It can be argued that this is not needed at all, unless you are on private well water which could contain more of these than you want. Municipal water must meet regulated guidelines for minerals like copper and iron, so if present they will normally be what we term trace amounts which are harmless to people. However, some may be harmful to fish. Live plants will deal with this at the levels one might find in municipal water. But without live plants, a conditioner that detoxifies heavy metals can be useful if you have them.

Then we come to the nitrogen compounds ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. It is possible to have one or more of these in municipal water, again at safe levels for humans but which may cause an influx of whichever in a fish tank. Some conditioners will handle ammonia; these will say so on the label. As for nitrite I know of only two, Prime and Ultimate; and only Prime handles nitrate.

One other issue is slime coat; some conditioners say they replenish the fish's natural slime coat by this or that means. One can argue how useful this is, and if it is being done chemically it may be more harm than good.

Obviously the more a conditioner handles, the more chemicals in it, and these add TDS (total dissolved solids) to the tank water. Plus, I am not a fan of adding any chemical to a fish tank unless it is essential. So my advise is to determine what you need to handle your tap water, and use the least expensive that will fit the bill. In my case with only chlorine, I have a lot of options, and frankly I go with the least expensive that doesn't carry side effects. For example, i tried Big Al's and it was fine except it left the tank cloudy for one to two days, just a haze but sufficient that it was quite noticeable. I am now using Nutrafin because i can get it online in the large size and save a lot. For years I used Kordon's, but it is now more expensive for me, and I need to count the dollars.

Another option for only chlorine is the chemical sodium thiosulfate which is the basic ingredient in most (if not all) conditioners, and i know some of our members buy this and use it as it can be less expensive.

Byron.
Byron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 06:03 PM   #52
 
I think another consideration is not just the price per ml, but the concentration.
Personally, I don't need it, but I like Prime, especially at 2 drops/gallon - 5ml per 50 gallons. It may cost a little more, but goes twice as far as some cheaper competing products. Worth the mention I think.
AbbeysDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 07:32 PM   #53
 
Thanks, Byron.
I'll ask the water company what they put in and I have to take out.

Wayne
cwmorrow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 01:00 PM   #54
 
Byron's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbeysDad View Post
I think another consideration is not just the price per ml, but the concentration.
Personally, I don't need it, but I like Prime, especially at 2 drops/gallon - 5ml per 50 gallons. It may cost a little more, but goes twice as far as some cheaper competing products. Worth the mention I think.
Yes, that is a very valid point. All of the conditioners I have used suggest 1 teaspoon (=5ml) per 10 gallons. But there is the issue of adding all those unnecessary (for me) chemicals to deal with ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and I simply do not want those in my tanks. If i didn't have plants, or had any of these in my source water (as I know you do) that would be very different.
Byron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 11:23 AM   #55
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
Yes, that is a very valid point. All of the conditioners I have used suggest 1 teaspoon (=5ml) per 10 gallons. But there is the issue of adding all those unnecessary (for me) chemicals to deal with ammonia, nitrite and nitrate, and I simply do not want those in my tanks. If i didn't have plants, or had any of these in my source water (as I know you do) that would be very different.
I guess it depends on how you look at it. I don't know what the active ingredients are that detoxify ammonia, nitrites and nitrates for 24-48 hours - Seachem indicates there is nothing extra, that this was an unexpected bonus of the product - ?
Looking at it differently, compared to Prime, at 5ml/10g, one would be adding 5x the chemical conditioner to handle chlorine. Perhaps merely a matter of concentration, or perhaps more of some other chemical to do the same job?

Note that I do not currently use Prime as my well water is not chlorinated. On the other hand, due to very high nitrates in my well water, I have to use filtered, DI or rain water and treat with Seachem Replenish for minerals and Seachem Neutral/Alkaline Regulators for pH.
(I'd think I'd rather deal with chlorine!)
AbbeysDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 06:17 PM   #56
 
Byron's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbeysDad View Post
I guess it depends on how you look at it. I don't know what the active ingredients are that detoxify ammonia, nitrites and nitrates for 24-48 hours - Seachem indicates there is nothing extra, that this was an unexpected bonus of the product - ?
Looking at it differently, compared to Prime, at 5ml/10g, one would be adding 5x the chemical conditioner to handle chlorine. Perhaps merely a matter of concentration, or perhaps more of some other chemical to do the same job?
It may be more the concentration than volume. Most dechlorinators use sodium thiosulfate, and some of our members actually buy this on its own and mix it with water which is less expensive than most prepared conditioners. There must be something else in Prime that mysteriously detoxifies nitrite/nitrate and binds ammonia, because these other conditioners with just the st do not.
Byron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 06:50 PM   #57
 
SusanB's Avatar
 
Forgive me for being dense, but I am confused about the python. I understand that you can refill your tank with it but will the dechlorinator work on the tap water when you put it into the tank first?

If I had a python, I could dose the tank with dechlorinator and then fill er up? It seems like a scary proposition; but I don't understand how long the dechlorinators work after being added to the tank.
SusanB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 07:16 PM   #58
 
Byron's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SusanB View Post
Forgive me for being dense, but I am confused about the python. I understand that you can refill your tank with it but will the dechlorinator work on the tap water when you put it into the tank first?

If I had a python, I could dose the tank with dechlorinator and then fill er up? It seems like a scary proposition; but I don't understand how long the dechlorinators work after being added to the tank.
Yes, the dechlorinator added to the tank will instantly neutralize chlorine in the tap water entering the tank, as it enters. I have used a Python for over 15 years now, and I start the tank refill at the faucet, then go back to the tank and squirt in the conditioner. Or you can squirt it in first, then refill. Only in very small tanks, like my 10g, do I not use the Python, because it fills too fast.

Conditioners tend to remain effective for 24-36 hours.
Byron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 11:39 PM   #59
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
It may be more the concentration than volume. Most dechlorinators use sodium thiosulfate, and some of our members actually buy this on its own and mix it with water which is less expensive than most prepared conditioners. There must be something else in Prime that mysteriously detoxifies nitrite/nitrate and binds ammonia, because these other conditioners with just the st do not.
From Seachem:
"

Prime
Product Description
PrimeŽ is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. PrimeŽ removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. PrimeŽ converts ammonia into a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tank’s biofilter. PrimeŽ may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. PrimeŽ detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them. It will also detoxify any heavy metals found in the tap water at typical concentration levels. PrimeŽ also promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat. PrimeŽ is non-acidic and will not impact pH. PrimeŽ will not overactivate skimmers. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water.

Sizes: 50 mL, 100 mL, 250 mL, 500 mL, 2 L, 4 L, 20 L

Why It's Different
Nearly all companies manufacture a product that removes chlorine. None of those, however, can compare in quality, concentration, or effectiveness to Seachem’s flagship product: PrimeŽ. PrimeŽ is the second most concentrated dechlorinator on the market after our own aquavitro alpha™. A single 100 mL bottle will treat 1000 US gallons of tap water. PrimeŽ will remove both chlorine and chloramines from municipal water supplies.
PrimeŽ also contains a binder which renders ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate non-toxic. It is very important to understand how those two functions work together. All dechlorinators operate through a chemical process known as reduction. In this process, toxic dissolved chlorine gas (Cl2) is converted into non-toxic chloride ions (Cl-). The reduction process also breaks the bonds between chlorine and nitrogen atoms in the chloramine molecule (NH2Cl), freeing the chlorine atoms and replacing them with hydrogen (H) to create ammonia (NH3).

Typically, dechlorinators stop there, leaving an aquarium full of toxic ammonia! Seachem takes the necessary next step by including an ammonia binder to detoxify the ammonia produced in the reduction process.
Be very careful when purchasing water conditioners. If your municipality includes chloramines in the water supplies, a standard sodium thiosulfate dechlorinator is not enough. PrimeŽ promotes the natural production and restoration of the slime coat rather than relying on artificial or non-native slime compounds. A further bonus for the reef hobbyist—PrimeŽ will not overactivate protein skimmers.

Directions
Use 1 capful (5 mL) for each 200 L (50 gallons*) of new water. This removes approximately 1 mg/L ammonia, 4 mg/L chloramine, or 5 mg/L chlorine. For smaller doses, please note each cap thread is approx. 1 mL. May be added to aquarium directly, but better if added to new water first. If adding directly to aquarium, base dose on aquarium volume. Sulfur odor is normal. For exceptionally high chloramine concentrations, a double dose may be used safely. To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used. If temperature is > 30 °C (86 °F) and chlorine or ammonia levels are low, use a half dose.
"

Although detoxification only lasts 24-48 hours, since ammonia and nitrites are toxic even to nitrisomonas and nitrobacter, detoxification during the cycling process may be a distinct advantage.

(Disclaimer: I have absolutely no affiliation with Seachem)

Last edited by AbbeysDad; 09-17-2012 at 11:45 PM..
AbbeysDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 11:52 PM   #60
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SusanB View Post
Forgive me for being dense, but I am confused about the python. I understand that you can refill your tank with it but will the dechlorinator work on the tap water when you put it into the tank first?

If I had a python, I could dose the tank with dechlorinator and then fill er up? It seems like a scary proposition; but I don't understand how long the dechlorinators work after being added to the tank.
One consideration....some use enough conditioner for the total volume of water in the tank. Others using a Python or hose refill, merely add enough to treat the water being added. For the dilution that will occur, I think it may be safer to add an amount of conditioner to treat the entire tank. Of course if you treat outside the tank, only the amount for the new water is required and as Byron points out, dechlorination is pretty much immediate.
AbbeysDad is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
joining multiple tanks masterofthesea Freshwater Aquarium Equipment 8 09-16-2012 12:49 PM
Multiple/Large Tank Sponge Filtering dmower Beginner Freshwater Aquarium 5 05-22-2011 01:49 PM
water changes on large tanks conger Beginner Freshwater Aquarium 3 12-27-2008 12:02 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:23 PM.