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live food and disease

This is a discussion on live food and disease within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Don't bother with tubifex worms. These ones make a nice hosting vector for myxosporidian diseases such as henneguya. Unfortunately, myxo issues are very difficult ...

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live food and disease
Old 02-14-2010, 05:38 AM   #11
 
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Don't bother with tubifex worms. These ones make a nice hosting vector for myxosporidian diseases such as henneguya. Unfortunately, myxo issues are very difficult to eliminate once your fish have it. Most of the time, only euthanasia can stop your frustration. Luckily, the domestically bred fish rarely contract this unless fed with tubifex worms. The wild-caught ones may likely carry them. Easily distinguished if you find white cysts that are attached firmly on the gill filaments and in some cases, deformed mouth.

Even if Steph's friend suspected the blackworms, has he ever considered dropsy has many causes that make it very difficult to diagnose the root cause except for post mortem necropsy?

1. Intestinal worms.
2. Internal bacterial infection.
3. Stress or trauma.
4. Improper acclimation process. This occurs almost immediately.
5. Clogged gastrointestinal tract.
6. Renal damage.
7. Too much accumulation of organic matter serving as nice breeding ground for anaerobic bacteria.
8. Bad water quality.
9. Bad food quality.

Most of the time, dropsy cases unfortunately have a slim chance of recovery. Your best bet would be euthanasia for full blown cases especially for suspected renal damage and improper acclimation.

For bacterial infection, use metronidazole and dose with aquarium salt at a concentration of 0.3% (3 teaspoons per gallon) to aid osmoregulation. You might want to elevate your hardness levels by at least 150 ppm. No lesser than that. Epsom salts can only help to an extent. Aquarium salt or table salt (without yellow prussiate) is your better alternative. Sometimes injectable antibiotics such as Baytril are best administered if you have the resource to it. Dosage is by weight of fish. Insulin syringes are needed to administer this intramuscular method. This is best done on large fish though.

To diagnose dropsy, look into the following.
1. Water parameters.
2. Tankmates.
3. Foods. Shelf life, quality, ingredients, guaranteed analysis, sources.
4. Acclimation process.
5. Maintenance schedule.
6. Filtration.
7. Thickness of substrate.
8. Kinds of decorations.
9. Behavioral patterns.
10. Physical changes especially stool appearance.
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Old 02-14-2010, 08:15 AM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by aunt kymmie View Post
I remember Twistersmom saying she has found leeches in the black worms she comes home with. Yeeaack.
I am not lucky enough to have a lfs that sells or breeds black worms in my area, so I have to do mail order. There are always a few leeches. I remove them. (not sure if the info is correct, but have read many times that the leeches do carry disease)

I would love so much, to not have to do the black worm thing anymore. I have two peacock eels that will eat nothing but. (Do to a mix up in my order, they even went three weeks without food once. I provided them fish live shrimp and my own stock of "feeder fish", but it was a no go. They love the worms)

Since I have to buy them, I feed them to all of my fish. If they are not used up in a months time, the worms start to die.

The eels are in a tank, that at one time housed many female bettas. (down to only one) Most died from dropsy. If the dropsy was a result of feeding black worms, I can not be sure. Most of the bettas where bought in very week/poor conditions. So perhaps the bad conditions they where kept in, did long term damage.

I have had no problems with any of my other tanks. They do all love their worms. I believe some fish are more acceptable to disease from eating live foods. Bettas could be one of these fish. After having a few female bettas die from dropsy, I read countless times, where people quite feeding black worms and had a lot less dropsy deaths. As Lupin says, dropsy can be caused by so many things, its hard to be sure.
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Old 02-14-2010, 11:59 AM   #13
 
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well, the fish who allegedly died with dropsy from black worms was a discus, but the others in the tank were fine and all of the other tanks were fine, so who knows. misdiagnosis is a strong possibility it sounds like.

TM will your eels eat frozen ones? (do they make them frozen?) i'm not a big fan of freeze dried anything bc just the sound of it makes me think that nutrient retention would be kind of low. as a snack, maybe.

i'm really just trying to fluff up my dp's diet beyond blood worms (i was doing frozen brine shrimp but i think that was totally feeding my hydra population because ever since i stopeed that, the problem has almost ceased). bettababy gave me a whole list of other foods to try so if i can't get black worms without leeches i'll be looking for other foods to try.
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Old 02-14-2010, 06:03 PM   #14
 
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I have never seen frozen black worms. Sure wish they did. Not sure my eels would go for it though, think its the wiggle of the worm that draws their attention.

Do you feed you DPs ramshorn snails? That would add some variety.
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Old 02-14-2010, 10:44 PM   #15
 
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Originally Posted by Twistersmom View Post
I have never seen frozen black worms. Sure wish they did. Not sure my eels would go for it though, think its the wiggle of the worm that draws their attention.

Do you feed you DPs ramshorn snails? That would add some variety.
i don't have any. i aquired some babies on some plants and tried to multiply them in a separate container, but i don't know if they are even still alive. don't know where to get them from.
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:35 PM   #16
 
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I can send you some ramshorn snail if you would like. I would have to use a heat pack and ship in a larger box, so it would around $12 to ship priority mail. (a lot of money for snails, I know) I have lots available to send out, so just let me know if you want them.
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Old 02-15-2010, 04:26 PM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by Twistersmom View Post
I can send you some ramshorn snail if you would like. I would have to use a heat pack and ship in a larger box, so it would around $12 to ship priority mail. (a lot of money for snails, I know) I have lots available to send out, so just let me know if you want them.
Thanks you for offering...I just (just about an hour ago!) found out that my friend has some in his tank. He's going to give me some to start a little breeding colony (hopefully, it won't be enough to feed them all the time, but at least enough for an occasional snack).

And I am skeptical that my lfs has real black worms as opposed to tubifex as they looked awfully light in color. I need to ask them if they breed them or what. Ugh, they are so gross I don't even want to deal with them. The things we do for our pets, I tell ya.
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Old 02-15-2010, 07:52 PM   #18
 
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Ugh, they are so gross I don't even want to deal with them. The things we do for our pets, I tell ya.
LOL! Tell me about it!

Keeping black worms in the fridge, kind of makes them inactive. We lost our power for a while one year. I did not think to pull the worms from the fridge. Well, the next morning I opened the fridge and these worms have crawled out of their containers. I had a pound of worms all over my fridge. Some died, and nothing smells worse than dead black worms. Enough to make you gag. Needless to say, not a good day.

Glad you found some snails. Give them plenty to eat, and they will reproduce quickly.
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:41 PM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by Twistersmom View Post
LOL! Tell me about it!

Keeping black worms in the fridge, kind of makes them inactive. We lost our power for a while one year. I did not think to pull the worms from the fridge. Well, the next morning I opened the fridge and these worms have crawled out of their containers. I had a pound of worms all over my fridge. Some died, and nothing smells worse than dead black worms. Enough to make you gag. Needless to say, not a good day.

Glad you found some snails. Give them plenty to eat, and they will reproduce quickly.
oh my goodness, that sounds so horrible. i know the smell of worms from when our worm compost bin baked in the sun, rendering gag-inducing smells all the way down the street (literally). blagh.

yes, i got snails from my friend tonite. I threw a few in each tank. the loaches will appreciate them, too, I'm sure. I can't help feeling a little bad for the snails, though. they are just so cute.

how many worms per puffer would you feed, roughly?
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Old 02-16-2010, 08:21 AM   #20
 
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how many worms per puffer would you feed, roughly?
Not sure really. When I had my DPs, I also breed the snails in the same tank. They had an unlimited supply, but I would say they ate 1 or two a day.
Are the loaches and DPs in the same tank? The DPS might have trouble getting to them first. When I get too many snails, I throw them in with my clown and yoyo loaches, they don't last long.
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