I'm curious about these two old wives' tales, where did they come from? - Page 3 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #21 of 45 Old 07-29-2010, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by kitten_penang View Post
finally someone firsthand is giving us inside info on what happens inside a lfs.what you said is true when i think about it.the workers are doing things thats been told and a few may know next to nuts about fish as not all fish lovers will want to work in a lfs except for a few (we a re lucky if we meet a few) the weird thing is my flower horn seems so much more active and less slugish if theres some salt added to the tank.i'll leave it for a week then i'll change the waterand add a little salt coz if i don't it will looks sluggish after 2or3days.why's that?

I suspect your Flowerhorn is much more appreciative of the fresh influx of oxygen rich water and the dilution /removal of dissolved organics that water changes provide than it is with the addition of salt. Water changes also bring with them, trace minerals needed by fishes and that also help stabilize the pH.
Aquarium salt does not provide trace minerals ,but does increase the total dissolved solids in the water. Many fishes don't appreciate waters high in total dissolved solids Especially soft water fishes as Byron has noted.
For other fishes,the salt irritates the skin and thus ,fishes attempt to produce excess slime coat to help aleviate the irritation caused by the salt.

The most important medication in your fish medicine cabinet is.. Clean water.

Last edited by 1077; 07-29-2010 at 03:30 AM.
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post #22 of 45 Old 07-29-2010, 11:15 AM
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i do not advise customers on the regular use of salt! but looking after 1500-2000 fish every day, adding salt to the water helps, especially the weaker ones which you will get with every delivery. so theres an example of salt helping for you. if people find that salt helps their fish (as demonstrated above) then so be it. i would think that people with a passion for fish should be open to ideas and not have a closed mind, but there we are i suppose this is how alot of myths get passed down when people are set in their old ways. infact it states in O.A.T.A the benefits of using salt and also many books. and as aquatics manager i deal with other aquatic managers every day who beleive in its uses. so unless you are working in are enviroment you can not tell us that salt does not benefit because we see the benefits every day!
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post #23 of 45 Old 07-29-2010, 01:11 PM
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This is true, but you are still completely missing the issue.

Fish in a store are obviously under considerable stress, especially upon first arriving. Handling that stress makes sense.

Fish in a home aquarium is a very different "kettle of fish." Salt should never be used in place of proper maintenance or suitable environment (the tank setup, filtration suited to the fish in the tank, etc) because the scientific evidence clearly shows it has detrimental impact on soft water fish [and I am still dealing with these, not livebearers, etc.].

There is absolutely no evidence from the scientific community that I have ever read that recommends using salt in a freshwater aquarium on a general, non-specific basis. As 1077 and I have pointed out, the very fact that it causes fish to produce more mucus [including in the gills] is because it irritates them; they don't like it, and that is stressful at the very least. Stress is a major cause of innumerable health problems and parasitic infestations. It makes no sense whatsoever to add stress to fish through use of salt when it is not necessary in the first place.

And as for being set in my old ways: I have been keeping fish for longer than you have been around. Nevertheless, I continually learn. Since joining this forum over a year ago, I have learned a great deal. I spend many hours a week on research. I consider the issues and see no reason not to accept the position of the vast majority when they have scientific support. That is sensible fishkeeping.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If youíre going to take it under your wing then youíre responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #24 of 45 Old 07-29-2010, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kitten_penang View Post
the weird thing is my flower horn seems so much more active and less slugish if theres some salt added to the tank.i'll leave it for a week then i'll change the waterand add a little salt coz if i don't it will looks sluggish after 2or3days.why's that?
It may be agitated by the burning sensation?

The measure of a person is what they do with what they've been given.
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post #25 of 45 Old 07-29-2010, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Byron View Post
And as for being set in my old ways: I have been keeping fish for longer than you have been around. Nevertheless, I continually learn. Since joining this forum over a year ago, I have learned a great deal. I spend many hours a week on research. I consider the issues and see no reason not to accept the position of the vast majority when they have scientific support. That is sensible fishkeeping.
Yes I too have kept fish for a long time and still learn new things. I used to use salt regularly in some of my freshwater aquariums per what I'd read in different books and been told by lfs workers. But I don't now because I've done research and compared sources, choosing to abide by what the actual empirical evidence available dictates.

We know the whys of when salt can be helpful in a freshwater tank (though there's generally less stressful ways to deal with those issues as well) and specifically why salt shouldn't be used in a prophylactic way.

I don't understand how you can know the fish even at a lfs are being helped by salt, do you have tanks without salt as a control group to compare their responses to?

The measure of a person is what they do with what they've been given.
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post #26 of 45 Old 07-29-2010, 02:29 PM
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and as have i stated the benefits of salt, which are also stated by a major aquatics training society i will continue to use salt because on occasions it is beneficial. ive neva agreed with the regular use of salt but i do beleive in its use. and i will continue to advise this way to my customers. i deal with hundreads of customers each week and have neva had any problems with its use. and there is proof of its benefits. you may have been keeping fish longer but that does not mean your knowledge on this subject is superior, if u find researching the way to go then thats great for you. but personally i like to use reasearch aswell as the hands on approach which is what has got me where i am today. and ultimately the fishes welfare is what i care about and will do what i beleive is best and so will you. i guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one,
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post #27 of 45 Old 07-29-2010, 02:31 PM
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hey oscarjim, actually yes i have done on a number of occasions.
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post #28 of 45 Old 07-29-2010, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mattfishgeek View Post
and as have i stated the benefits of salt, which are also stated by a major aquatics training society i will continue to use salt because on occasions it is beneficial. ive neva agreed with the regular use of salt but i do beleive in its use. and i will continue to advise this way to my customers. i deal with hundreads of customers each week and have neva had any problems with its use. and there is proof of its benefits. you may have been keeping fish longer but that does not mean your knowledge on this subject is superior, if u find researching the way to go then thats great for you. but personally i like to use reasearch aswell as the hands on approach which is what has got me where i am today. and ultimately the fishes welfare is what i care about and will do what i beleive is best and so will you. i guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one,
Let's keep focused on the specific issue, which is the regular use (prophylactic) of salt in freshwater tanks not the occassional (treatment) use. This is what Byron, others and I are concerned with - so if you've " neva agreed with the regular use of salt" you aren't in disagreement with us. If you are advising your customers to regularly add salt to their tanks you are contradicting yourself.

You actually haven't "stated the benefits of salt" anywhere as yet, others have outlined some reactions in freshwater fish caused by salt (osmosis issues & increased slimecoat due to irritation).

Sorry, but if a "major aquatics training society" is telling people to regularly put salt in freshwater fish tanks then they are not to be attended to.

Yes I'd have to say I do " find researching the way to go " and personal experience is part of research, but you've yet to cite specific observations as to how salt has helped freshwater fish in your store environment. If they are reacting better to the addition of salt it might be because salt does have some neutralizing effects on nitrates, meaning you have high nitrates in your tanks meaning you need to do more water changes.

The measure of a person is what they do with what they've been given.
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post #29 of 45 Old 07-29-2010, 04:05 PM
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thanks but i know how to keep my water as i want it so dont go giving me advice on that. im not just some novice who doesnt kow what hes on about i have a diploma in fish care, fish biology, water chemistry and filteration so im not just taking random guesses. ive thoroughly tested out my actions and will continue to use them. if u actually read through properly i have stated the benefits of salt and i have not agreed with the regular use of salt. y cant some people accept that others have different opinions.
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post #30 of 45 Old 07-29-2010, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mattfishgeek View Post
thanks but i know how to keep my water as i want it so dont go giving me advice on that. im not just some novice who doesnt kow what hes on about i have a diploma in fish care, fish biology, water chemistry and filteration so im not just taking random guesses. ive thoroughly tested out my actions and will continue to use them. if u actually read through properly i have stated the benefits of salt and i have not agreed with the regular use of salt. y cant some people accept that others have different opinions.
If you agree with not regularly using salt in freshwater tanks then you don't have a different opinion.

The measure of a person is what they do with what they've been given.
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