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This is a discussion on Help!! within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> it seems as if i have to defend myself on here so i'll put my 2 cents in... i've been keeping fish for about ...

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Old 03-09-2010, 08:49 AM   #11
 
it seems as if i have to defend myself on here so i'll put my 2 cents in...

i've been keeping fish for about a year and a half and even though that might not be a very long time, i've had a ton of differrent kinds of fish along the way, and done A LOT of research about fish and aquarium keeping. first of all, there are fish that are known to be more HARDY than others, meaning they can live through a wider variety of water conditions and are meant to do so. so by putting them in newer tanks, they help in cycling the tank, it's not mean or wrong to do, it's what they're meant to do. I had a clown pleco and goldfish make it through cycling 4 tanks, the goldfish got traded in because it got too big and my other fish were starving, and the clown pleco i still have to this day and it is as healthy as could be.

secondly, obviously you would put food in the tank for the fish whether you were cycling the tank or not so i dont know where you're going with that. but i was actually talking about putting a small amount of food in the fishless tank so that they would decompose to create the ammonia and bacteria in order to get into the filter and help build a good base of bateria for the cycle.

third, i dont know told you that algae is bad and you might just not know, but there are many different types of algae: green, brown, red, etc. any algae other than green is indeed bad. green algae is good algae and has no detrimental effect to an aquarium. plecos eat it as their main diet, shrimp eat the hair algae. so you need to further your knowledge pertaining to that.

lastly, i will end with one thing i do agree with you about, my head hurts now too. thank you and have a nice day.
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Old 03-09-2010, 10:02 AM   #12
 
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i kind of agree and disagree with the both of you, in a way. having some algae can be very good for a tank. some fish will use it as a food source and it will help to oxygenate your water. as your tank cycles you will notice brown diatoms gathering on your tank walls. this is normal and will clear up on its own. there are some algaes though, that most people do not want in their tanks. brush algae for example, while it is a food source for fish like SAE's, can get very bothersome. it will spread quickly and begin to grow on and suffocate your plants, eventually killing them and the rotting plants could lead to more ammonia spikes. staghorn algae is another one that is a sign of poor water quality. the presence of certain algaes can be indicative of another problem that you are unaware of. the fact is, some algaes will help and others will cause problems. saying it is either good or bad is too general a statement. i allow the back wall of my tank to grow green algae and i clean the rest with a razor blade.

as for some fish being good for cycling, yes some fish are harder to kill, but they are still suffering from the ammonia passing through their gills, and are essentially dying slowly as long as there are toxic levels of ammonia present. that is why it is SO important to test often for ammonia while you are cycling with fish, and to not let the levels get to a lethal level. when cycling is over you should show zero ammonia and zero nitrites, and a small level of nitrates.


ANY amount of filter media from a cycled tank will do wonders for your tank's cycle. however, be careful not to take too much away or you will cause a mini-cycle in the cycled tank.

Last edited by Bacchus; 03-09-2010 at 10:05 AM..
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Old 03-09-2010, 12:12 PM   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOUIE ACES View Post
it seems as if i have to defend myself on here so i'll put my 2 cents in...

i've been keeping fish for about a year and a half and even though that might not be a very long time, i've had a ton of differrent kinds of fish along the way, and done A LOT of research about fish and aquarium keeping. first of all, there are fish that are known to be more HARDY than others, meaning they can live through a wider variety of water conditions and are meant to do so. so by putting them in newer tanks, they help in cycling the tank, it's not mean or wrong to do, it's what they're meant to do. I had a clown pleco and goldfish make it through cycling 4 tanks, the goldfish got traded in because it got too big and my other fish were starving, and the clown pleco i still have to this day and it is as healthy as could be.

secondly, obviously you would put food in the tank for the fish whether you were cycling the tank or not so i dont know where you're going with that. but i was actually talking about putting a small amount of food in the fishless tank so that they would decompose to create the ammonia and bacteria in order to get into the filter and help build a good base of bateria for the cycle.

third, i dont know told you that algae is bad and you might just not know, but there are many different types of algae: green, brown, red, etc. any algae other than green is indeed bad. green algae is good algae and has no detrimental effect to an aquarium. plecos eat it as their main diet, shrimp eat the hair algae. so you need to further your knowledge pertaining to that.

lastly, i will end with one thing i do agree with you about, my head hurts now too. thank you and have a nice day.
I was not personally attacking you I just did not believe your information is correct and I still do not and I do not want them recieving bad advice.

Firstly, Bacchus did a good job explaining this one. Just because the fish survived and didn't die doesn't mean it won't have any long term damage from being exposed to high levels of ammonia that you might not see. It is essentially poisoning them. Depending on the type of gas, if you as a human are exposed to some types of toxic gas it can have horribly damaging effects, though you might survive. And if you couldn't talk like fish nobody would know how you felt and you'd appear that nothing was wrong. Even if it's hard to breath now, or you have pains in your chest nobody can tell. Anyways, it is cruel to cycle a tank with fish unless you keep the water quality good by tons of water changes. Either way it's better to cycle w/o fish. Exposing a fish (just because it's harder to kill) to materials toxic to them is not right. It's also unnecessary as you can easily cycle your tank without having to expose any fish to toxic ammonia. Yes, the method of cycling with fish works, but it is indeed harmful to the fish. Also I wouldn't recommend to the OP to add more fish and more fish waste to the headache of trying to keep the water parameters under control. The fish s/he has are enough and adding more is just going to make it worse!

Secondly, you mentioned "dropping the food in the tank to decompose," meaning not eaten, but left to rot. W/o fish you are right this may speed up the process. But adding extra food to a tank that is cycling with fish is going to cause more stress on the fish by increasing the amount of ammonia and pollutants. But now that I read what you said more, that's not what you meant, so you're absolutely right.

Thirdly, I stand by my opinion that algae is not good. Algae only occurs when there is an imbalance of light and/or too much nutrients to allow the algae to grow (fish waste... not good... the "nutrient" level should no be high enough int he first place to allow excess algae to grow)... yes the algae might take some of the nutrients out of the water but that would only happen if you had too much fish waste in the first place which isn't present in a tank that's water quality is maintained by W/Cs etc. Algae is also a pest and grows quickly if these two things are out of whack. Some algae is fine, and normal, but purposely causing one of those two things to go out of whack to increase algae growth is just going to cause an algae explosion that will in the end be hard to get back under control. The benefits of algae are not worth trying to grow more than the minimum... Instead, if you get algae eating fish there's other foods that you can feed them... as well as the small amount of algae that grows naturally.

Again I'm not attacking you so I don't see why you feel like you need to defend yourself and attack me in return. Though, I am now a bit offended that you assume that I know nothing about fish keeping and I have not done my homework, yet I have quite a few healthy aquariums. I've done quite a bit of research myself and have had fish longer than you mentioned. I don't claim to know everything, and there's lots I need to learn. And I ask plenty of questions on here. I admit I don't know a ton about algae, but I do know at least the basics I said above...

Last edited by Austin; 03-09-2010 at 12:16 PM..
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Old 03-09-2010, 12:24 PM   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Austin View Post
Also I wouldn't recommend to the OP to add more fish and more fish waste to the headache of trying to keep the water parameters under control. The fish s/he has are enough and adding more is just going to make it worse!
definitely do not add any more fish!! you need to wait until the beneficial bacteria levels catch up to the amount of fish that you have currently. if anything, rehome a couple fish.

this part is important:

even when your tank is cycled you cannot go and add fish too quickly. you must always add fish slowly because your filter really only has enough beneficial bacteria to deal with the ammonia source that are present in your tank. when you add more fish, you are essentially adding more ammonia and you need to do it very slowly so that your filter can keep up with it. otherwise, you will cause a mini-cycle. my tank has been cycled for 2 years. if i were to throw 5 goldfish in it right now i would cause a huge ammonia spike, whether it was cycled or not.

once your tank is cycled and is showing zero ammonia and zero nitrites, then you can very slowly add a couple fish a week until you are stocked. until that happens, test the water often and do 30-50% water changes any time you see the ammonia reach .25 ppm and up.

Last edited by Bacchus; 03-09-2010 at 12:28 PM..
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