Having some fishtank problems - Page 4 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #31 of 41 Old 08-07-2012, 08:53 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by thekoimaiden View Post
No freshwater fish needs sodium chloride salt (table salt and that stuff they sell at the pet store). Some fish like goldfish and cichlids need a high amount of dissolved minerals. This is sometimes accomplished by adding "cichlid salts" which are not the same thing as the API Aquarium Salt. In chemistry, the word salt refers to any ionic compound that results from the neutralization of an acid and base. Mini chemistry lesson in fishkeeping lol!

I agree with you on petstore advice. I can't tell you how many times people have been lead astray by their advice. Those kids are paid to sell stuff, not give good recommendations on fishkeeping.
When I was in there the other day I asked the kid about the switching out the gravel because I was curious and he was saying I don't have to drain any water out and that I can leave my fish in their when I switch the gravel LOL. Honestly I wouldn't mind working in the fish section at Petsmart when I become more aquarium savy infact their is a Petsmart finally being built in my town. With this whole salt thing I can use just regular table salt? and how much would I put in for a 55 gallon? btw I appreciate the chemistry lesson lol

Special thanks to TFK user Amanda aka LasColinasCichlids for helping identify some of the fish species names I lost track of.

55 Gallon inhabitants
1 striped peacock eel
2 Harlequin Rasboras
2 Giant danios
2 zebra danios
2 Rosie reds (former feeder fish I saved from my toad) R.I.P Pippa we miss you
1 Large Pleco

20 Gallon tank (in progress)
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post #32 of 41 Old 08-07-2012, 08:54 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Chr1s View Post
You have a really nice tank setup Chris.
Thanks Chris

Special thanks to TFK user Amanda aka LasColinasCichlids for helping identify some of the fish species names I lost track of.

55 Gallon inhabitants
1 striped peacock eel
2 Harlequin Rasboras
2 Giant danios
2 zebra danios
2 Rosie reds (former feeder fish I saved from my toad) R.I.P Pippa we miss you
1 Large Pleco

20 Gallon tank (in progress)
Empty
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post #33 of 41 Old 08-07-2012, 09:00 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by LasColinasCichlids View Post
Petsmart and Petco use aquarium salt in their store tanks all the time on freshwater fish for one purpose... to hide or attempt to prevent sickness and such. They always tell fish buyers to add salt, as they do.
I know this very well, as a teen I worked at a Petsmart, and still have a few friends that work for them.
My advice for any new fish keepers is always to do your homework before getting into the hobby, and to keep informing yourself.

Thanks for the compliment, Chris. My knowledge of dog and cat breeds is much better (former vet tech here!). lol

I wish you much luck with the tank. As I said in our PMs, once the salt is out and clean water there, the fish will come around. Also maintaining a stable temperature that all the fish can be comfortable in. Your tank is very beautifully set up.
Hey i'm not a new fish keeper far from that lol I started in 07 lol just wanting now to learn some more things etc and fix different things. I explained to the Petsmart guy my fishes diet which is Bloodworms for the eel and flakes for the fish and he suggested that Omega One which from what I see online is really good stuff but apparentley Petsmart uses it too because it was plastered on each tank :-/. my fish are hardly eating but i'm hoping they eventually come around.

Special thanks to TFK user Amanda aka LasColinasCichlids for helping identify some of the fish species names I lost track of.

55 Gallon inhabitants
1 striped peacock eel
2 Harlequin Rasboras
2 Giant danios
2 zebra danios
2 Rosie reds (former feeder fish I saved from my toad) R.I.P Pippa we miss you
1 Large Pleco

20 Gallon tank (in progress)
Empty
Chris07860 is offline  
post #34 of 41 Old 08-07-2012, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris07860 View Post
When I was in there the other day I asked the kid about the switching out the gravel because I was curious and he was saying I don't have to drain any water out and that I can leave my fish in their when I switch the gravel LOL. Honestly I wouldn't mind working in the fish section at Petsmart when I become more aquarium savy infact their is a Petsmart finally being built in my town. With this whole salt thing I can use just regular table salt? and how much would I put in for a 55 gallon? btw I appreciate the chemistry lesson lol
No salt is needed .
Mineral salt's used in some tank's are to raise hardness for those who have softer water, and are comprised of largely calcium and magnesium.
If you already have hard water, or even moderately hard water, then these mineral's are most likely already present in your tapwater.
Salt used in fish store tank's is aquarium salt, and is mostly used to help lessen the effect's of nitrite poisoning which would be expected in these small tank's full of fish.

The most important medication in your fish medicine cabinet is.. Clean water.
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post #35 of 41 Old 08-07-2012, 09:32 AM
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Agree with no salt for sure. It's supposed to be really bad for the eel especially.

About the eel, bloodworms alone probably isn't full nutrition. I'd try mixing a few things up, though if he's been on bloodworms for a long time it might be hard to get him to try other things. You can try going to the grocery store and picking up some frozen pollock or shrimp (raw) and try that out on him. Any raw shrimp will do, if you get smaller ones you can try leaving some of the shell on because it's a good calcium source. He might also appreciate earthworms from a bait store, just rinse them off from dirt.

Food wise, omega one and new life spectrum are both good choices.

taking a break from fish-keeping.
3 lovely male betta still keep me company.
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post #36 of 41 Old 08-07-2012, 09:45 AM Thread Starter
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Agree with no salt for sure. It's supposed to be really bad for the eel especially.

About the eel, bloodworms alone probably isn't full nutrition. I'd try mixing a few things up, though if he's been on bloodworms for a long time it might be hard to get him to try other things. You can try going to the grocery store and picking up some frozen pollock or shrimp (raw) and try that out on him. Any raw shrimp will do, if you get smaller ones you can try leaving some of the shell on because it's a good calcium source. He might also appreciate earthworms from a bait store, just rinse them off from dirt.

Food wise, omega one and new life spectrum are both good choices.
Someone the other day suggested Mysis shrimp so I put that in and he isn't eating it but maybe he will adjust to it I put that in the same time I put the bloodworms in.

Special thanks to TFK user Amanda aka LasColinasCichlids for helping identify some of the fish species names I lost track of.

55 Gallon inhabitants
1 striped peacock eel
2 Harlequin Rasboras
2 Giant danios
2 zebra danios
2 Rosie reds (former feeder fish I saved from my toad) R.I.P Pippa we miss you
1 Large Pleco

20 Gallon tank (in progress)
Empty
Chris07860 is offline  
post #37 of 41 Old 08-07-2012, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Chris07860 View Post
I wish the petstores wouldn't give false information :-/ I told them I have the Danos etc and they suggested the salt lol I don't think however that the 4 Danos I lost each day in a row was from that I think it was from the high Nitrate levels but believe me. I don't plan on using salt again but what Freshwater fish does need this salt?
While high nitrate (80ppm was the number mentioned earlier, and this is "high" but not all that high) will stress most fish, it alone is not going to cause what you described. It may certainly contribute by adding more stress, but something else is also a factor and the main factor. Nitrate at 80ppm is not going to burn scales off of danios. This is almost without question the salt. At the level you were adding it, there was bound to be repercussions for the fish.

A store may use salt because it is beneficial to selling the fish, though not to the fish themselves.

There is absolutely no freshwater fish that needs or will benefit from any salt. And salt here meaning sodium chloride, common salt. Mineral salts for hard water fish are a very different matter. As other members have tried to explain. And as that article i wrote and linked details. Please read it to clear up your misconceptions.

Byron.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #38 of 41 Old 08-07-2012, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Byron View Post
While high nitrate (80ppm was the number mentioned earlier, and this is "high" but not all that high) will stress most fish, it alone is not going to cause what you described. It may certainly contribute by adding more stress, but something else is also a factor and the main factor. Nitrate at 80ppm is not going to burn scales off of danios. This is almost without question the salt. At the level you were adding it, there was bound to be repercussions for the fish.

There is absolutely no freshwater fish that needs or will benefit from any salt. And salt here meaning sodium chloride, common salt. Mineral salts for hard water fish are a very different matter. As other members have tried to explain. And as that article i wrote and linked details. Please read it to clear up your misconceptions.

Byron.
I no longer plan on using that salt in my tanks and I want to work on drasticlaly lowering that Nitrate levels. I'm still concerned about my test kit though I believe the nitrate readings but it was odd the other day how Amonia was showing 0 yet nitrates were high. I thought that Amonia has to be high for nitrates to be high. There was something else that was really low too that I questioned wheter or not the kit was false. It's just hard to tell how past the shelf life is for this product I mean it's from 07. ok here we go last time PH was 7.6 and Nitrite was 0 ppm but what was odd was the color was more clear than it was blue which again questions the integrity of how old the kit is.

Special thanks to TFK user Amanda aka LasColinasCichlids for helping identify some of the fish species names I lost track of.

55 Gallon inhabitants
1 striped peacock eel
2 Harlequin Rasboras
2 Giant danios
2 zebra danios
2 Rosie reds (former feeder fish I saved from my toad) R.I.P Pippa we miss you
1 Large Pleco

20 Gallon tank (in progress)
Empty
Chris07860 is offline  
post #39 of 41 Old 08-07-2012, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris07860 View Post
I no longer plan on using that salt in my tanks and I want to work on drasticlaly lowering that Nitrate levels. I'm still concerned about my test kit though I believe the nitrate readings but it was odd the other day how Amonia was showing 0 yet nitrates were high. I thought that Amonia has to be high for nitrates to be high. There was something else that was really low too that I questioned wheter or not the kit was false. It's just hard to tell how past the shelf life is for this product I mean it's from 07. ok here we go last time PH was 7.6 and Nitrite was 0 ppm but what was odd was the color was more clear than it was blue which again questions the integrity of how old the kit is.
The forms of nitrogen that can occur in aquaria are ammonia/ammonium, nitrite, and nitrate. [There is also nitrogen gas but we needn't go into that for the purposes of your post.] Each of these can be at any level independent of the other two. Ammonia and nitrite should always be zero, once the tank is established. Nitrates may be zero or higher, but ammonia and nitrite should still not be detectable with our test kits. The nitrate can be present from more than once process, and it may be high without ammonia or nitrite showing up. We aim to keep nitrate as low as possible, below 20ppm is advisable but even lower is better.

Test kits do have a shelf life. API put a date on their regent bottles. Most aquarists suggest that after 2-3 years the tests may be unreliable. I have had pH kits at least 7 years old that still were accurate [when tests using a new kit were also done at the same time] but whether that was a fluke or normal, I can't say.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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post #40 of 41 Old 08-07-2012, 01:46 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Byron View Post
The forms of nitrogen that can occur in aquaria are ammonia/ammonium, nitrite, and nitrate. [There is also nitrogen gas but we needn't go into that for the purposes of your post.] Each of these can be at any level independent of the other two. Ammonia and nitrite should always be zero, once the tank is established. Nitrates may be zero or higher, but ammonia and nitrite should still not be detectable with our test kits. The nitrate can be present from more than once process, and it may be high without ammonia or nitrite showing up. We aim to keep nitrate as low as possible, below 20ppm is advisable but even lower is better.

Test kits do have a shelf life. API put a date on their regent bottles. Most aquarists suggest that after 2-3 years the tests may be unreliable. I have had pH kits at least 7 years old that still were accurate [when tests using a new kit were also done at the same time] but whether that was a fluke or normal, I can't say.
Awesome sounds like my aquarium is doing really well then despite the high nitrates but that's a work in progress. I appreciate the help you and the others have given me. I'm going to be more active on the forums. I'm not used to being on forums but I can imagine it can be very informative for myself as well as others. I just redid the timer on my fish tank. I love this timer it's awesome even the air stones kick on the same time as the lights too. I unplug the airstones around feeding time. I know that's a little off topic lol

Special thanks to TFK user Amanda aka LasColinasCichlids for helping identify some of the fish species names I lost track of.

55 Gallon inhabitants
1 striped peacock eel
2 Harlequin Rasboras
2 Giant danios
2 zebra danios
2 Rosie reds (former feeder fish I saved from my toad) R.I.P Pippa we miss you
1 Large Pleco

20 Gallon tank (in progress)
Empty
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