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Frustrated plant question??

This is a discussion on Frustrated plant question?? within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> well i have never really added conditioner to my tanks here. everyone fish wise in this area said it is not necessary with our ...

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Frustrated plant question??
Old 02-12-2010, 04:07 PM   #11
 
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well i have never really added conditioner to my tanks here. everyone fish wise in this area said it is not necessary with our water. ive been in this area for 2 years with tanks and no problems. but at this point ill try anything, thanks for the help guys :)
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:41 PM   #12
 
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I don't have chlorine readings here neither - most days- but let the city flush the lines; you have a reading of 5 don't notice the smell dump that stuff w/out conditioner in your tank - very fatal .... In all these yr of tank keeping now with anything that lives in water pretty much (so not just keeping various fish) I'd never add water to my tank w/out conditioner.
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:06 PM   #13
 
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well got back from the fish store, and they said that the natural ph of water around here is close to 8 so my tap for whatever reason is quite lower. all other fish at this point are fine, i am lowering the ph slowly to be back around 7.6 doing a water change (not in that order haha) and a light gravel vac. outside of that not sure what i can do..

oo i did get a plant light though. still 15 watt but with more phophors or something i dunno. it saysaquarium plant lamp haha
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:38 PM   #14
 
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you never did mention you ammonia reading (did you)? i was curious when i read your theory about the loach dying and maybe leaching ammonia. i'm sure your tank is cycled but if an added source came along...
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:46 PM   #15
 
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it was 0 on wed when i added the plants. presently it is .25 which i think is due to the 3 dead fish. the tank has been cycled for over a year
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:53 AM   #16
 
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It often helps us if we know more details. You have quite a list of fish although I gather they are in different tanks as yo have several listed. What size tank is this, and what are the fish in it (species and number of each)? And is any other chemical stuff going in this tank (fertilizer, salt, water this or that...)?

Byron.
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Old 02-13-2010, 01:07 PM   #17
 
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this is in a 55 gal

In this tank (yes I know its horrible but it worked for over a year)

3 Tiger Barbs
2 Serpae Tetras
2 YoYo Loaches
2 Clown Loaches
1 Redtailed Shark
1 Rainbow Shark
1 Bala Shark
1 Chinease Algea eater
1 Pleco
1 Ghost Shrimp

The bacteria built up was sufficient to keep up with the waste, I do a 20% water change once a week, and top off the tank once a week and this has always been sufficent to keep the nitrates near 0. I knew that rainbow sharks and red tailed sharks could not have another of their own kind in the same tank, but I did not realise that they shouldn't be with each other either. However they are both currently about 4 inches, and I have never had a problem with them. I know that Serpae, Tiger barbs, and Clown loaches should be kept in schools of 5 or more to keep down aggression (or loniliness in case of the clown loaches) however on doing research I found that the barbs, tetras and loaches would school together just fine without any issues, and After a little over a year of watching it, I found this to be true, and thus there have never been any aggression issues in this tank) The YoYo loaches also were fine because they would school and play with the sharks.

So, Strange tank stocking aside..

I used the standard Liquid fertalized that I have been using for months, same dose, same time of the week. The last fish to be added were the serpae tetras and clown loaches, over two months ago ( I can't remember when exactly, just that it was before Dec)

Here is what happend
Mon: the nitrates were a little high ( <40) which is normal as monday is my WC day.

Tue: all levels were 0

Wed: Added new plants

Thur: Found dead Pleco in the afternoon had been dead less then a day. Found dead clown loach had been dead longer as it had began to be eatin/deteriorate. Amonia was around .25 NO2 & NO3 both @ 0 Second Clown loach not looking too hot, but have no tanks I could put him in due to incompatable fish mates, or same water quality(plus didnt want to risk hurting another tank)

Fri: Second Clown loach dead ( only a few hours dead) Ammonia was somewhere between .25 and .5 but closer to .25 I think (those two are hard to tell for me) Also the pH had risen since monday from 7.6 (tested on high and low liquid testers) to 8.0 I have no idea why this is, but I do know that the is pretty high for clown loaches ( though my LFS insists that this should not have been two high for them)

I tested all water samples twice, and keep a record in a log book for each tank. Fri I also brought in a water sample and had it tested at the LFS with the same results as my home test. I bought some stuff to bring the pH down as well as some water conditioner. I very rarely use water conditioner here. No one I know has ever had a problem with the local tap water (which out of my faucett tests 0's and a pH of 7.6)

My LFS said that perhaps the clown loaches were not doing as well as they looked to be all this time and finally died, and the pleco died at the same time by coiencedence. This answer does not, however satisfy me. If it was just one flish, or just the clown loaches maybe.... I dunno
As of last night all the other fish seem to be acting normal and not having any problems. today I plan on doing a light gravel vac and maybe another 20% water change.

I hope that is enough information if you need anything else just ask :)


Fri: Second

Last edited by cbirk; 02-13-2010 at 01:14 PM.. Reason: was supose to say LESS then 40 on nitrates
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Old 02-13-2010, 01:15 PM   #18
 
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when you get all of this straightened out, please add more yo yo's as they thrive in groups of 3 or more

lots of plants will keep those nitrates in check. you do weekly water changes and your nitrates are 40? wow. that seems really high to me. my "big" tank is only half that size but my nitrates have never exceeded 5ppm.
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Old 02-13-2010, 01:25 PM   #19
 
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No my nitrates are always less then 40. Maybe I miss typed that. I said my nitrates were a little high. for me anything over 0 is a little high, but I noticed a lot of people think over 40 is "a little high" since anything under 40 is safe for fish. Was just trying to say it was a little high for my tank, but still well within the safe range for fish. I would tell you exactly how much it was but my log book is at home, and I don't remember off hand.

As far as the YoYo loaches go, yes I read about that but they seem to be doing great with the two sharks. However I had already decided that since I lost the two clown loaches and the pleco, that I now have room for another YoYo, so once I am SURE that everything is fine I plan on adding one anyways, just to be on the safe side. Wouldn't want any of my fish to be unhappy.

Also since this whole even while I was at the store last night I got another 10 gal and set up a hospital tank. That way if I ever see a fish not looking so hot again in the future I have someplace I can put it and try and save it.
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Old 02-13-2010, 01:53 PM   #20
 
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I am going to make a couple of general observations; please understand that I am, as is everyone else who has so far responded to this thread, trying to help you resolve an obvious problem. So if what I say is direct, please accept it as constructive help based upon my 15+ years experience and research.

First, although it may "appear" OK, your combination of fish is not OK. I would even go so far as to guarantee you are going to have more trouble with some of these fish. First, fish that live in shoals in nature must be in a suitably-sized group to be less stressed [more on that momentarily]. Second, fish that are by their very nature territorial/aggressive do not change; that aggression may be diminished or seem non-existent due to the fish being under stress itself from its tankmates, insufficient numbers of its own species, whatever, or sometimes it worsens because of these conditions. But the fish was created that way, and none of us are going to alter its biological dependencies, whatever your store may have told you. Your serpae tetras and tiger barbs each need a group of at least 8 or 9 to curb their natural aggression to each other, let alone other fish.

"Stress" can be caused by many things; it always has a detrimental effect on the fish's health. It is fact that stress affects the immune system, and fish under stress can become more prone to various diseases, parasites, nutritional issues, etc. Also, this sometimes takes months to show itself. Example, fish that are stressed by ammonia or nitrite levels in new tanks sometimes "appear" to live through it; but 5 months from now they may "suddenly" die. The reason can be traced back to the internal detrimental effect of that ammonia or nitrite. This is difficult for most of us to fully comprehend, but one thing we do know: stress causes health problems, whether now or later.

Water conditioner: in North America it is rare indeed for municipal water supplies to not use chlorine, some use chloramine; the level may be minimal now, to the point that 20% water changes once a week won't hurt the fish. But the chlorine may suddenly be increased [I have had this happen years ago] and then its too late. Or the effect of the minimal chlorine causes stress which brings on internal health issues not noticeable now, as I've already explained. If you use a municipal water source, I would always use a good conditioner with water changes.

pH adjusting chemicals should never be used in a tank with live fish. These chemicals are stressful to almost all fish, some more than others; loaches are sensitive fish. The pH of the water is what it is for a reason, usually due to the carbonate hardness (KH). This buffers the water, preventing pH swings; using chemicals to lower the pH will cause the pH to fall, then the buffers bring it back; the resulting fluctuation is worse stress on the fish than leaving it alone even if not within the preferred range. I won't go more into this now, as this post will be long enough as it is. But there is probably something calcareous in your aquarium that is raising the pH; as iamntbatman said earlier, pH normally falls in an aquarium. Rock, gravel that is calcareous (leeches calcium and/or magnesium) will raise pH.

Fertilizer: what specific fertilizer? Most contain trace minerals, iron, copper, nickel. These are heavy metals, and all heavy metals are very toxic to fish and plants if the level rises above the minimum required for plant nutrients. This is why overdosing is so dangerous. I realize you said you have used it for a while, but these metals can build up, particularly as you are not using a water conditioner (most detoxify heavy metals to some extent) plus there could be trace minerals in your water which is adding more. I'm not saying this is the culprit, it is just another factor to be investigated.

Clown loaches are sensitive fish, and I'm not surprised to see they are among the first to die. The cause is probably connected to something above, maybe several things combined.
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