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This is a discussion on *First Aquarium* within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Originally Posted by Byron I'm adding my agreement to what 1077 has told you, completely. On the specific fish, to be successful a community ...

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Old 08-12-2009, 11:34 AM   #11
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
I'm adding my agreement to what 1077 has told you, completely.

On the specific fish, to be successful a community aquarium must have fish that all prefer basically the same water parameters (temperature, pH, hardness, salinity if brackish)and have behaviours that are compatible. Mixing fish with different preferences for water will cause some of them to be stressed, and that leads to health problems, more frequent disease, and sometimes fish loss because eventually they just can't struggle on. Decide what sort of community you want and make sure the fish are comparable in requirements and behaviour--and size of course, you only have 9 gallons.

Good luck.

Byron.

Hi, Thanks for your reply... what do you mean by "Decide what sort of community you want"

What are the different types of community are there to choose from?

Thanks

M
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:58 AM   #12
 
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temperature, pH, hardness, salinity if brackish)and have behaviours that are compatible.

^^ taken from byron....

pretty much what he's saying is just because you go to your LFS and the tanks say "community fish" don't assume they will all be happy in the same tank. and not all community fish will get along with other community fish....example: don't get fish that prefer water temps in the mid 70's and fish that prefer water above 80 degrees....one of the groups will not survive.

maybe just hop on google.com and see what kind of fish interest you and see if they fall into the same catergories for the aspects byron mentioned above...you'll figure it out once you start some research

Good luck!

Last edited by JohnnyD44; 08-12-2009 at 11:59 AM.. Reason: i can't spell...
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Old 08-12-2009, 11:59 AM   #13
 
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Thanks for the input 1077 and Byron
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Old 08-12-2009, 12:38 PM   #14
 
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Originally Posted by tfoso90 View Post
If I was to use the shrimp for cycling, how long does this normally take?

I am looking at the best and easiest methods for cycling my new tank. I want to try and get it done this weekend.

Thanks

M
The shrimp method is no quicker than fishless method with raw ammonia. Both will take approx three weeks or longer. The only method I am aware of that would allow the tank to become safe for three or four SMALL fish over a weekend would be with the use of some filter material and or substrate from an existing tank. Do read up on (cycling a new aquarium) Patience is needed if you wanna do it right with few problems.
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Old 08-12-2009, 01:23 PM   #15
 
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I think I've got the opportunity here to offer some insight into cycling. I know some members in other threads have questioned the usefulness of products like "Cycle" and "Stability," but I have absolute certainly that they work.

In July, I had my (new) fishroom finally ready, so I set up my 115g tank that had been sitting empty for four years (only had the 70g and 90g running in another room). I used gravel from when it was last running, which had been washed in tap water and stored in a large garbage bucket with a lid to keep out dust. I used all new media in a new Rena XP3 filter. So no bacteria in any of this. I filled the tank, left it over night to ensure no leaks after being empty for so long, filter running, heaters working. The next day, I moved the plants from the 90g and some of the wood, and 12 Pristella maxiliaris, dosing the 115 with Kordon's conditioner. The next day I moved all 96 fish into the tank and dosed with "Stability." Repeated Stability the day following at half strenth. Nothing else was done. I tested water every day; from day one there was "0" ammonia, "0" nitrite and "5" nitrates which went up to 10 by week 2 and has remained there [now in week 4]. No fish losses.

The day after I moved the fish, I tore down the 90g, cleaned the gravel thoroughly under tap water, set the 90g up (having moved it to the new room), added brand new media to the filter, filled it, and the next day moved all the plants, wood and 89 fish from the 70g into the 90g, dosing two days with Stability. Same water test results as the 115g.

Seachem claims Stability will cycle a tank immediately. I also think the bacteria on the wood and plants worked in conjunction. And I also used Hagen Fluval biomax as the filter media (couldn't get the Eheim stuff locally) and this claims to reduce (not remove) ammonia and nitrite (didn't want any messing with nitrates because of my plants). I have some very sensitive fish--pencils, corys and hatchets, all wild caught and imported direct. Not one fatality.

Back in 1998 I had cause to tear down and thoroughly clean my 115g due to something toxic that turned out to be leeching from some of the wood and had obviously penetrated everything (filter media, gravel, plant leaves). On the advice of Lee Newman, Curator of Freshwater Fish at the Vancouver Aquarium (and now author of articles appearing in AFI), I moved all the fish (130 of them) to a spare 33g, tore the 115g apart and scrubbed everything I could with hot tap water, put it all back together, dumped in "Cycle" and the fish, all within 12 hours. Not one fish loss. There was certainly no bacteria in that new tank except from the Cycle.

I think after years of fishkeeping we gain some knowledge as to what does and doesn't work, and when faced with these situations no doubt we basically know what we are doing, and we know that we are taking some risks but unavoidably. It is still wise for new aquarists to follow the steps to guarantee success, but I am convinced that using Stability or a comparable product will benefit. Seachem says Stability contains bacteria that colonize the surfaces; some have previously suggested that bacteria can't live in the bottles of Stability. Seachem, in resonse to an enquiry by a friend of mine who owns two large stores in this area, stated that it is live bacteria but the explanation on how this is done was somewhat mystifying. It obviously works.

Just some observations I thought I'd pass along to help. Attached is a photo of the 90g (top) and 115g (lower photo) taken just before sending this post. There are now 113 fish in the 115g, and 89 in the 90g.

Byron.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 90g Aug 12-09.jpg (56.1 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg 115g Aug 12-09.JPG (96.1 KB, 27 views)

Last edited by Byron; 08-12-2009 at 01:26 PM..
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Old 08-12-2009, 02:04 PM   #16
 
Thanks for all this advice everyone, its been a lot of help!

This Stability sounds interesting, where could I read more on that? Or buy some.

M
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Old 08-12-2009, 02:22 PM   #17
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfoso90 View Post
Thanks for all this advice everyone, its been a lot of help!

This Stability sounds interesting, where could I read more on that? Or buy some.

M
It's manufactured by Seachem, they have a large range of products, good water conditioner (Prime), good plant fertilizers (Floruish line) and Stability is relatively new. Any fish store that carries Seachem products probably has Stability. You can read info on their products on their website at Seachem Laboratories. Sea the Difference
Click on "PRoducts", then "Conditioners", then "Tank Cycling/Bacteria".

The thing I really appreciate about Seachem (aside from the clear fact that so far everything I've used has really worked to do what it claims) is their technical detail on products; their breakdown of the macro- and micro-nutrients in Flourish for instance is very good to know.

Byron.
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Old 08-12-2009, 03:01 PM   #18
 
Hi Byron,

Thanks for this info, I have been reading up on Seachem Stability. It sounds almost to good to be true, some people are saying it doesn't work and there is no quick fix apart from Bio spira which is only available in the US.

I would like to try this Stability,

My tank is brand new, do you think if I add tap water to my tank use the Dechlorinator leave it for 24 hours then add 1 cap full of Stability on the first day and then half a cap for the next 7 days the water will be ok to add fish?

Thanks again

M
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Old 08-12-2009, 04:23 PM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by tfoso90 View Post
Hi Byron,

Thanks for this info, I have been reading up on Seachem Stability. It sounds almost to good to be true, some people are saying it doesn't work and there is no quick fix apart from Bio spira which is only available in the US.

I would like to try this Stability,

My tank is brand new, do you think if I add tap water to my tank use the Dechlorinator leave it for 24 hours then add 1 cap full of Stability on the first day and then half a cap for the next 7 days the water will be ok to add fish?

Thanks again

M
I know of the Bio spira, but we can't get it in Canada because being bacteria that is frozen they won't let it across the border [learned this from the owner of two large stores in this area]. From our conversation, I would assume it is also good.

Fill the tank with water, get the filter and heater running, and leave for 24 hours just to ensure everything works and no leaks. Add the conditioner and Stability just before you add the first fish. Both work instantly. Use Stability according to directions, I think its 1 capful per 10 gallons the first day, then half that (1 capful per 20g) every day for a week. With a new tank and no other source of bacteria I would follow this exactly; I cut back after day 2 because I also had bacteria-laden wood and plants. Bacteria need food, which is ammonia for nitrosomonas bacteria and nitrite for nitrospira bacteria; with no fish in the tank, the bacteria can't live long (and obviously won't multiply), since fish are the source of the ammonia that starts the nitrification cycle. Again with a brand new tank, I would not overload the fish. It is simply my view that using Stability allows you to add a few fish from day one and get the cycle going immediately, without stressing or losing fish.
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Old 08-13-2009, 03:32 AM   #20
 
Thank you very much for all your advice, I will let you know when my cycle is complete and I have added my first fish.

M
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