Dead goldfish in a new uncycled 55g
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Dead goldfish in a new uncycled 55g

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Dead goldfish in a new uncycled 55g
Old 05-12-2010, 09:01 AM   #1
 
Dead goldfish in a new uncycled 55g

Hey everyone, against my better judgement, I got two more goldfish yesterday, and I figured I would keep them quarantined in the 55 gallon tank before I was to put my three goldfish into it(the two fish in question were a comet, and a common, both bought from different places)

The tank has been set up with play sand that was washed well for the substrate, and has spent weeks settling(although it did almost look like the fish were slightly sandy, so perhaps that is the cause?) three very large chunks of rock, and a slew of smaller rocks. I purchased the rocks on craigslist, so perhaps they had been pesticided from time to time, but I washed them all thoroughly in hot water, and I checked them all with vinegar and no fizzing.

I had checked the various levels, albeit with a strip test, and the hardness, alkalinity, ph all seemed fine, and of course 0 nitrites and nitrates as it hasnt even started cycling yet. Just tested for ammonia, and it is under .5 after the two fish died in it sometime last night.

The tank has a small sump tank with filter floss, some porous rocks, and some small sections of PVC. it has a PVC overflow, that uses regular white pvc, and pvc cement, that was allowed to cure for several days in 70+ degrees, occasionally as high as 80 degrees before being used. I did not feed them during the time they were in there, but I did put a clay pot that was covered with brown algae from my (seemingly)established 10 gallon tank for them to have a little bacteria and some algae if they needed something to graze on. I also used GE Silicone for exterior purposes(not GE II, and not with mold inhibitor) and plastic cd cases that I had washed for the baffles in the sump tank.

The 55 gallon tank, and the pump being used for the tank we both used as saltwater originally, but I cleaned everything multiple times as well as I could, but I will be getting something to test for salinity to see if somehow that was an issue.


I can't think of anything else to add here, other than that the first fish I had gotten around 2:30 yesterday seemed to just be laying on the bottom after about 9:00 last night, but then I also saw him swimming around looking just fine after this.

Both fish were acclimated, I left them in their bags floating in the tank, and slowly added a little bit of the tanks water for about 20 minutes, and then put them and all of their water into the tank, each at their own seperate times.

And as far as hiding, I do not have much, but i have two pretty good sized fake plants in there(about 10" high each, one with plenty of leaf hanging, one with some spread out thickish stalks) One chunk of slate/rock leaned against the side with plenty of space to hide under, and just a ton of rocks spread throughout.


Water tests
Temperature 69 degrees
Ammonia <.50 ppm
Nitrites 0
Nitrate 0
Hardness 0
Alkalinity ~40
PH 6.8

Although everything aside from ammonia is from a strip test, I don't know how far off they can be, and it just all seems so weird, since the water is the same water I use in the 10 gallon that has had my three goldfish in it for almost 2 months now, seemingly quite happy, while these two fish both died within 12-18 hours, which seems like it would be so fast that there would have to be a problem.


If I can't find a problem with anything, I guess I'll just be taking everything out, cleaning very good again, and I'll get new substrate, build another overflow and sump tank, leave out the rocks, and stick with new decorations.

Would just be nice if I could figure something out so I don't have to scrap everything I have so far, but it seems like it would take something very bad to kill two seemingly healthy, and still very small goldfish in so much water virtually overnight.



Thanks for anyones help.
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:43 AM   #2
 
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I think it could have been the silicone.

Even the Stuff that doesn't have mold inhibitor is probably not 100% silicone...
And I believe that two things that are both 100% silicone can be a bit different.

I've read epoxy that said 100% epoxy resin and they had different ingredients.

Aquarium silicone is just as cheap and they sell it at most large chain stores... Even if the employees don't know they have it, it's usually in stock.




It also could have been the ammonia. I know, you tested with strips... I used strips for a long time.
But now I realise that using strips about as accurate as tasting/smelling your water and trying to guess it.

Please go buy a liquid test kit. The tetra laborett is only about $14.
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:45 AM   #3
 
Alright, went to the lfs I got the first goldfish at, and had them test the waters in both my 55g and my 10g, to see if something could be figured out, and I guess my thoughts of not that high, were either from testing wrong, or just not knowing whats high or not, which is probably it.

They said the 55g had much more ammonia than the 10gallon, possibly from putting the clay pot in there with all the algae, since it was going from an established tank into plain water, which might have caused it to break down releasing alot of ammonia into the water, everything else seemed fine, and I was happy to see that the 10 gallon looks pretty well, with low ammonia even though my water changes have been less and less frequent(even though the reason for that is the low ammonia in the first place lol)

I was happy when he pulled out a suitcase full of all liquid tests though, since they're supposed to be alot more accurate than strips, so I would be fairly confident that the tests were all pretty accurate.

He suggested leaving everything how it is, doing a 50% water change, and letting the tank do it's stuff for a week, at which point he'll give me another goldfish to see if things go better after that.

Does this seem like bad advice, or good advice?

I know it usually seems against better judgement to take lfs advice, but since it doesn't involve me buying anything, and it would potentially lose me their business if their advice lead to more dead fish, I'm not sure how to take this one.

From my amateur view, it seems like it would be good advice, but I thought if anyone who actually knows their stuff could give me a little advice as well, it'd be a little reassuring.


Thanks again
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:50 AM   #4
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by redchigh View Post
I think it could have been the silicone.

Even the Stuff that doesn't have mold inhibitor is probably not 100% silicone...
And I believe that two things that are both 100% silicone can be a bit different.

I've read epoxy that said 100% epoxy resin and they had different ingredients.

Aquarium silicone is just as cheap and they sell it at most large chain stores... Even if the employees don't know they have it, it's usually in stock.




It also could have been the ammonia. I know, you tested with strips... I used strips for a long time.
But now I realise that using strips about as accurate as tasting/smelling your water and trying to guess it.

Please go buy a liquid test kit. The tetra laborett is only about $14.
The silicone was the GE Silicone 1 that I spent about two weeks reading through forums about, it seems to be the only silicone that has been suggested by every forum I've been to for aquarium use. It is half the price of the actual aquarium silicones in the lfs, and I looked through both of my local hardware stores, and neither carried DAP aquarium silicone, or any other silicones listed for aquarium use, as well as the several forums I looked through for the PVC overflow, also listed the pvc and the pvc cement as being aquarium safe when properly cured.

The ammonia is the only test kit I do have liquid for, it's the other tests that are strip tests, and the ammonia seemed fine to me, but my reading the colors was a little bit off, and the numbers don't mean too much to me, so it seemed okay to me, but I didn't realize how high it was(like 3 times higher than my 10 gallon with three goldfish)
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Old 05-12-2010, 09:54 AM   #5
 
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Well it may not have been the silicone...

But I bought my silicone at home depot for $4.

Aquarium silicone isn't espensive. Anything at the LFS is expensive.

Plus ammonia is EXTREMELY toxic.
Could get some ammo-lock or ammo-chips until the tank cycles, but it's empty now... so maybe just leave a dead fish in the tank to make it cycle properly?
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:19 AM   #6
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by redchigh View Post
Well it may not have been the silicone...

But I bought my silicone at home depot for $4.

Aquarium silicone isn't espensive. Anything at the LFS is expensive.

Plus ammonia is EXTREMELY toxic.
Could get some ammo-lock or ammo-chips until the tank cycles, but it's empty now... so maybe just leave a dead fish in the tank to make it cycle properly?
I'll probably end up going with their advice, and doing a 50% change and letting the tank sit and run for about a week, then I'll retest everything and add another goldfish to it, taking the risk of cycling with a goldfish I like is bad enough, I couldn't think of leaving a dead fish I picked out in a tank to cycle it.

And for the silicone, i checked both home depot and Rocky's, went through all of the silicones and unfortunately they didn't have anything for aquariums, but I'm fairly confident in the silicone I ended up with since it seems to be recommended just about everywhere.
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Old 05-13-2010, 04:31 AM   #7
 
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Hmm. The one thing that jumped out at me was the PVC cement rather than the silicone. If you've read that it's aquarium safe, though, maybe that isn't what did them in.

What did you use to clean the saltwater equipment? I'm just trying to get all of the bases covered.
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Old 05-13-2010, 07:24 AM   #8
 
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Originally Posted by iamntbatman View Post
Hmm. The one thing that jumped out at me was the PVC cement rather than the silicone. If you've read that it's aquarium safe, though, maybe that isn't what did them in.

What did you use to clean the saltwater equipment? I'm just trying to get all of the bases covered.

For both the tank and the pump(the only things still included0 I just used a bunch of hot and warm water and paper towels. Wasn't sure what else I could use.
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