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Cycling with Fish Questions/Concerns

This is a discussion on Cycling with Fish Questions/Concerns within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Originally Posted by onefish2fish they tell you to add salt for every fish which alot of fish can handle except scale-less species. aquarium salt ...

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Cycling with Fish Questions/Concerns
Old 01-13-2009, 03:01 AM   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onefish2fish View Post
they tell you to add salt for every fish which alot of fish can handle except scale-less species. aquarium salt helps gill function and i believe disease

i wouldnt add the ghost shrimp just yet as inverts are sensitive to ammonia and nitrite.
you can cycle a tank with fish but as mentioned it takes longer due to having to do frequent water changes. is it possible to return the fish and do a fishless cycle with pure ammonia?
Your first paragraph can be interpreted "salt can be added permanently". To clarify this issue, salt neutralizes the toxicity of nitrites. This is one reason why salt can be used temporarily and only for cycling cases to avoid the fish (if all other options are unavailable) from being intoxicated especially by high levels of nitrites. It doesn't necessarily help with the gill function. Nitrites and ammonia can burn their gill tissues, especially the latter if the pH is on the alkaline side.

As for diseases, it will never prevent any disease but make them more resistant particularly ich which is why salt is best used only when disease outbreaks actually occur as most pathogens lack tolerance for the added salinity and electrolytes causing them to explode which in ich cases, these trophonts actually do.
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:12 AM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by Sj45 View Post
Thank you very much for responding, very informative. On the mollie deal, I was wondering because many sights/stores will tell you to add salt for optimum health as they are a "brackish" fish and live in salt/freshwater. But i wasn't sure if it would be alright for my other fish etc.
There is a big difference between the "aquarium" salt and marine salt. "Aquarium salt" is pure sodium chloride whereas marine salt has buffering capacities and other minerals added required to create a brackish to saltwater environment. You need marine salt when you create a brackish environment but you must also consider other tankmates when doing so.

Mollies can do fine in freshwater, brackish water and saltwater. If the source where you obtained your mollies kept them in freshwater, then salt is completely unnecessary otherwise you may have to as most mollies become prone to bacterial infections after having been accustomed to higher salinity levels. It is more difficult to acclimate a fish from saltwater to freshwater than vice versa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sj45 View Post
Where can I buy aquarium salt? I would like to add the shrimp though as they're cheap and could help...
You do not need "aquarium" salt. This is a complete waste when table salt can work fine. Table salt itself is cost effective and can help you in the long run with ich cases. "Aquarium" salt as mentioned earlier is pure sodium chloride packed in a fancy package and priced at more than the fraction of table salt. Companies responsible for this gimmick then "debunk" all claims about table salt by pointing it as the culprit for most fish deaths due to the alleged iodine and other additives in it. I for one see their word against table salt as bunk and one way to pitch in their sales at the cost of the customers' hard earned cash. What many people forget when adding salt is they are supposed to dissolve the salt thoroughly first before adding it. Salt grains can burn the skin of many fish and adding all at once can cause osmotic shock killing the fish in the process. The myths about the additives in table salt have been repeatedly parroted around the forums from time to time.
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:02 PM   #13
 
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Originally Posted by Jewels View Post
Hi there,
All I know is that the MOST AGGRESSIVE FISH I have ever encountered in my life (with a community tank) was a MOLLIE! It was accidentally sold to me as a female Platie (and I can remember thinking how it looked a "bit odd" after I bought it). Then I awoke a few days later and IT WAS 'HOLDING THE WHOLE TANK TO RANSOM'.
A Silver Shark jumped out/ a discus died/ it had everybody flipped out in there!/ and after that I rapidly decided to take it back to the shop.....It began an entire disaster for my poor fish/ stressed after it's aggression/ someone advised me to use Ph down and I lost ALL MY DISCUS!.......
I'm not saying that one bad fish makes a bad breed/species, but true story/ exercise caution with other fish in your tank! It was 'nipping' and attacking every single fish in the tank with the exception of the 2 that hid in the rock to avoid it ( the Bristlenose Catfish/ Clown Loach)
I didn't add any salt /because Discus are mighty expensive fish here in Australia, and I had been advised to set the tank 'around the 3 Discus'....

MY TANK:160 Litre(606 gallons) tank ( Freshwater Tropical/ Setup with only 'chlorine neutral' added because of fussy Discus)
Temperature set at 31 degrees C)

3 X Discus
2 X Angelfish
2 X Rainbow Sharks (new)
2 X Redtailed Sharks
5 X Black Widow Tetras (new)
2 X Blue Platies
1 X Clown Loach
1 X Bristlenose Catfish

Multiple plants
2 X 'Cavey' rocks (tunneled in one case)
'Wooly' thick algae kept in there (although controlled)
Undergravel biological filtration/ Water change weekly of 2 buckets/ 'Chlorine neutral' added to fresh warm water.......

Everybody seems happy and healthy/ just set up....looks nice and clean.......
Most of these fish are survivors from living in a tank with only 1/2 (55L) capacity..........
- After I accidentally fell on the old tank due to my bad back/ left leg (as well as old right leg) problem as a result and it ruptured............It took a few months before I could afford and handle carrying the new tank as I had a shocker of a back/left leg and was even hospitalised for it.......

Back to Mollies......make sure that they are PLACID ONES!
Cheers Jewels
My Mollie is a female and she is very calm and I have not seen any aggression out of her but thanks for the warming and I will take watch.

Im not sure what "placid" means :/
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Old 01-13-2009, 05:08 PM   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupin View Post
There is a big difference between the "aquarium" salt and marine salt. "Aquarium salt" is pure sodium chloride whereas marine salt has buffering capacities and other minerals added required to create a brackish to saltwater environment. You need marine salt when you create a brackish environment but you must also consider other tankmates when doing so.

Mollies can do fine in freshwater, brackish water and saltwater. If the source where you obtained your mollies kept them in freshwater, then salt is completely unnecessary otherwise you may have to as most mollies become prone to bacterial infections after having been accustomed to higher salinity levels. It is more difficult to acclimate a fish from saltwater to freshwater than vice versa.


You do not need "aquarium" salt. This is a complete waste when table salt can work fine. Table salt itself is cost effective and can help you in the long run with ich cases. "Aquarium" salt as mentioned earlier is pure sodium chloride packed in a fancy package and priced at more than the fraction of table salt. Companies responsible for this gimmick then "debunk" all claims about table salt by pointing it as the culprit for most fish deaths due to the alleged iodine and other additives in it. I for one see their word against table salt as bunk and one way to pitch in their sales at the cost of the customers' hard earned cash. What many people forget when adding salt is they are supposed to dissolve the salt thoroughly first before adding it. Salt grains can burn the skin of many fish and adding all at once can cause osmotic shock killing the fish in the process. The myths about the additives in table salt have been repeatedly parroted around the forums from time to time.
Thank you very much Lupin for both of your post, helped me very much.
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:19 AM   #15
 
Wink Yes/ honest! An agro mollie!

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Originally Posted by onefish2fish View Post
in regard to your post jewel i personally do not believe the molly was the cause of tank deaths.
to start 160 litres = about 35-36 US gallons.
your bioload was extremely heavy, and discus already sensitive as they are died. the sharks which are territorial prob. chased one of eachother out of the tank, the angel fish as they mature will get territorial, the clown loach likes a school/shoal and gets very large itself. is this tank currently up and running now with these tank mates?
Hi there onefish2fish,
OK -Maybe the US gallon is a different measure, but my Australian text says that I litre = 0.264 G, but maybe my solar calculator is wonky! That's the figure it came up with, although I must say I was surprised at the figure!.
Yes, Yes, Yes that Mollie started EVERYTHING in my old tank with its aggression...........
And YES! everybody is happy and healthy in my tank, although I'm impatient for more plant growth, particularly from the Java Fern.
I'm not sure if you can picture a 160L tank (In Australian measures), and that capacity may be smaller than the full tank, but it's pretty enormous! Here at my place it takes up 2/3 of the large window that it sits under, and is quite tall........
Don't worry, I'd get isolating fish into a small tank that I also have if they got nasty, normally, but that Mollie went back to the shop ( Prior to Fish TB- OK?). I decided that enough was enough!
Cheers Jewels
PS: From all accounts what killed the Discus was an overload of Ph Down trying to calm/ normalise all those terrorised fish! But HONEST -The Mollie started it with sheer aggression! I've never seen such an agro fish before in my life!
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:24 AM   #16
 
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Originally Posted by Sj45 View Post
My Mollie is a female and she is very calm and I have not seen any aggression out of her but thanks for the warming and I will take watch.

Im not sure what "placid" means :/
Hi there,
Placid means calm and serene............
Cheers Jewels
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Old 01-14-2009, 01:38 AM   #17
 
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please post:
height (from top to bottom)
width (from left to right)
and depth of the tank (from front to back)
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Old 01-14-2009, 09:08 AM   #18
 
Wink Tank capacity

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Originally Posted by onefish2fish View Post
please post:
height (from top to bottom)
width (from left to right)
and depth of the tank (from front to back)
Hi there, onefish2fish
RE: My '160L' tank
Height = 51 cm
Depth = 33 cm
width = 78 cm
I'd appreciate knowing the total capacity, as it already had water when I added 150L. It would help to know ( in Litres please/ I'm an Australian)....... I was thinking of calling the shop I bought it from to see if they know. It sure looked empy when I first filled it with existing fish (medium Discus)........
Thanx!
Cheers Jewels
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Old 01-14-2009, 11:14 PM   #19
 
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i plugged in tank dementions here:
Tank Volume Calculator
and got 131.27 litres or 34.67 gallon(US)
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Old 01-15-2009, 12:43 AM   #20
 
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Originally Posted by onefish2fish View Post
i plugged in tank dementions here:
Tank Volume Calculator
and got 131.27 litres or 34.67 gallon(US)
Hi there, onefish2fish,
Thank you very much.
Cheers Jewels
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