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to cycle ( i know i should know..)

This is a discussion on to cycle ( i know i should know..) within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> I agree with everyone who has suggested you use seeded media and slow stocking. IMO, fishless cycling is more for smaller tanks that will ...

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to cycle ( i know i should know..)
Old 09-28-2013, 06:11 AM   #21
 
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I agree with everyone who has suggested you use seeded media and slow stocking. IMO, fishless cycling is more for smaller tanks that will be immediately heavily stocked. Rotting fishfood really reeks; only shrimp is worse. It gets into the biofilm and takes a long time diminishing. I can't imagine a 100 gallons of stench. You can stock whole shoals in a 100g with little risk.

I would never directly recommend bottled-bacteria to a person with your background and experience. But, they have really gotten good these past years. I and many of my friends have managed safe, quick, easy cycles using the better of these products.

To Pop:
Plants don't retard or slow the cycle. If there's enough of them, they actually replace the cycle, eating ammonia before it even gets to the nitrifying bacteria. Even a few plants make the cycle safer, by quickly attenuating ammonia spikes. Somewhere there's a balance. But the bacteria colony, large or small, takes about the same amount of time to establish.
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Old 09-28-2013, 04:19 PM   #22
 
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hi
you can recommend anything, i wouldn't mind
my memory these days is not great,i seem to have more..'oh yes of course'
moments than ever before.
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Old 09-28-2013, 08:17 PM   #23
 
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Within the last ten years, at least a dozen bottled-bacteria products have hit the market. Most of them are based on the work of Dr. Timothy A. Hovanec (Dr. Tim), whose Marineland team developed a method of extending the shelf-life of nitrifying bacteria. Their first commercial product, containing Nitrosomonas (ammonia-oxidizing) and Nitrospira (nitrite oxidizing) bacteria was called BioSpira.

This product was bought up by Tetra and became Safestart. Safestart is probably the most used of these live bacteria products. But, as with all the others, it has a long but finite room-temperature shelf-life (6mo-1yr), so it must be used fresh and never have been heated (>90*) or cooled (<32*).

Dr Tim went on to found his own company specializing in aquarium products as well as commercial water treatment. His bottled nitrifying bacteria is arguably the best of these live-bacteria products, having been developed by the man who started it all. Dr Tim's One-and-Only is shipped fresh from the factory in an insulated container, giving the bacteria the best chance of arriving in the tank alive and healthy. As should be expected, it's also the most expensive.

There are other products that contain these key bacteria and vary in price (in no particular order and from memory): Microbe-Lift NiteOut, ATM Colony, API quickstart, even Drs, Foster & Smith has a cheap house brand.

Disclaimer~~~ I, personally, don't buy bacteria. If I need a large colony I "bucket" cycle to build it up by performing a seeded-media fishless cycle, in a bucket or small tank, using high (pure) ammonia, high temperature, high water-flow and darkness. I can't afford to just experiment...more's the pity. But I have spent many hours researching, talking to people (including Dr. Tim), and tracking other keepers' processes and procedures.

Nothing's impossible, I have found.....
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Last edited by Hallyx; 09-28-2013 at 08:34 PM..
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Old 09-29-2013, 04:20 AM   #24
 
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thank you so much for taking the time,it means a lot to me it really does.

can i change my post count please and pretend i'm a noob,coz i feel like it

have i got a problem ? am i overly worrying for nothing..?
the spray bar on this here wet box,is pointing downwards into the tank,
there is no surface agitation,now for live plants this is good ?(i can't remember)
however i...umm well i don't like it,so i put the power head back in,
and it just moves the water round,it dosen't break the water surface.
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Old 09-29-2013, 07:41 AM   #25
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Hello Hallyx:
in the bucket method why have the high water flow you are using a bucket? Maybe the answer is dissolved oxygen. Would you agree that nitrification is oxygen intensive process and produces as a by product dissolved carbon dioxide.
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Old 09-29-2013, 07:55 AM   #26
 
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Ripples and/or splashing outgas CO2. At least that's my understanding. Of course it also oxygenates the water, which is good for the nitrifying bacteria.
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Old 09-29-2013, 08:11 AM   #27
 
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We're thinking about the same thing at the same time tonight, pop.

Right, having the filter on high and splashing increases oxygenation through gas exchange. Bacteria love their O2. The additional flow also exposes the bacteria to more food (ammonia/nitrite). Probably also blows bacteria around the tank to start new colonies. Wouldn't you think?

Would you agree that nitrification is oxygen intensive process.....and produces as a by product dissolved carbon dioxide.
It is. The best way to get O2 into the tank is splashing. Even an airstone would do that. The reason to do that with a filter is to have seeded media when you're done.
In a bucket, you won't have substrate to dilute the bacteria, and no plants to steal ammonia.

It somehow produces CO2 which lowers pH, a common side effect of the cycle. Does anyone know the mechanism by which the Nitrosomonas does this?

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Old 09-30-2013, 06:37 AM   #28
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hello Hallyx:
interesting answer maybe we should continue this talk in another thread perhaps in the advanced discussion area and not confuse beginners with a chat of ideas.

Boredome: I will follow your suggestion about using 10% ammonia to cycle the orphan tank. a good suggestion one teaspoon for every 10 gallons.

Blackwaterguy: I will watch out for a falling pH and watch the carbonate hardness. If i add a small amount of dry ice would it raise the carbonate level during a fishless cycle providing adquate carbon for plants?

jaysee: yes this is a learning experience for me that is why i must start from scratch. I wasn’t planning to use a filter during the cycle I want the bio-filter (bacterial colonies) in the substrate not in the filter media.

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Old 09-30-2013, 08:14 AM   #29
 
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I'd really like to discuss this in more depth. For instance, Pop, why do you prefer to have more of your biofilter in the substrate?

Lemmesee here...2-drops/gal=~1.0ppm ammonia. That's 20 drops/10g for 1.0ppm. If you want a strong fishless cycle, say 4.0ppm NH3, that's 80 drops. How many drops per teaspoon?

Dry ice is CO2? That would tend to lower your pH which would retard the cycle. Measures to grow and maintain plants and those for bacteria are kind of mutually exclusive, eh?
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:08 AM   #30
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Hello Hallyx:

I want the bio-filter in the substrate because I am lazy. I want the HOT (hang on top) filter for only mechanical and chemical filtration, so i can just dispose of used media and replace with clean media without any other concerns including not having to dismantle and unhook the filter.

I have aqua clear 70 filter and fluval 2 plus that came with the orphaned aquarium. I want to use the fluval 2 plus without media for cycling. After cycling I plan to remove the fluval 2 plus and then run only the HOT aquaclear 70.

I look forward to enjoining you, Hallyx in conversation in the advanced freshwater forum. jaysee, boredome and blackwaterguy participation would just make the conversation that more enjoyable and learning experience for me. I will try to get a post for discussion together in the next few days.

Willow thank you for starting this thread I have learned a lot about cycling. for beginners follow the advice given about using used media to start the cycling process.
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