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cloudy tank help

4K views 23 replies 6 participants last post by  iamntbatman 
#1 ·
hi every one i need help. i bought a 45g. tank 6 months ago i had over the tank filter and to power heads i cycled the tank with 6 zebra danios. after the cycle all my paramiters were great i added 2 pictus catfish and 7 tiger barbs. the tank was great for about a week then it got very cloudy. as soon as it started getting cloudy i started to do 25% water changes every week and all it did was get more cloudy eventuly all my fish died except 2 zebra danios and a very small sucker fish with i dont know what its is. i left the tank the way it was exepty doing water changed every week. after talking to some friend at work about my problem they advised me to get a canester filter wich i did i bought a rena 70 gal. canester filter. after hooking it up the cloudiness went away in 24 hours. i left the filter to cycle with the 3 remaining fish for another month untill all my levels in my tank were nitrate.10, nitrite 0, ammonia 0, and ph 7.0. at this point i bought 1 redtailed shark and 7 tiger barband a week later to day my tank is getting cloudy again its not as bad as last time this time the cloudiness is white not green i did a 25% water change yester day and its still cloudy and all my levels are still the same . what am i doing wrong and should i do daily water changes and if i do what % a day. all my fish are very happy right now in my tank swimming around and playing with each other so i know there happy i just want i clear and clean tank any help would be great. thanks
 
#2 ·
Can you describe your tank; is it planted - lots of plants or a couple. How do you clean your filters, do you use tap water or aquarium water to clean them. What tests do you do on your tank - PH, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, hardness GH and KH.

The bloom sounds like a tank re-cycling; if you don't mind throwing some money at it, around $25; I'd get some Seachem Stability and apply it as required, you only need the smallest bottle. With the remaining money, purchase some horwort plants, these guys are ammonia feeders. They aren't the prettiest plant around, heck you don't even need to plant them, just leave them in your tank (floating if you prefer) for at least 4 to 6 weeks.

I'm guessing by your description of events, your tank is either plantless or thinly planted.

If you can find some Seachem Purigen, it will absorb some of the nasties and polish your water; this stuff is cheap. Add it in your canister filter. It can be recycled from 5 to 8 times before it is exhausted.

If you have future problems with a green bloom in your tank, you might want to consider a UV sterilizer. Here's a long and sometimes technical article but well worth reading:

http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumUVSterilization.html
 
#3 ·
i have about 6 plastic plants i dont want real plants till i get every thing under controle and my levels are good they are nitrite 0 nitrate .10 ammonia 0 ph 7.0 . iv had my new filter for olnly about 5 weeks so i havnt cleaned it yet.
 
#4 ·
Its the real plants that will help you, in fact if you get enough they will help seed your tank with good bacteria from the tanks they were in, and they will absorb the bad stuff that is giving you problems. If you want a planted tank, now is the time to get started; plants can play a very big part in cycling a tank.

Here's a nice explanation for your - read the "silent cycling" part:

http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquarium/cycling.php
 
#5 ·
i will get some plants on monday after i research wich ones i want but in the mean time how often should i do a water and how much. again my levels are at nitrate .10 /nitrite 0/ ammonia o /ph 7.0 and my tank has a white cloudiness to it
 
#7 ·
As this is an established tank, not new, with no live plants (yet;-)), you should be doing partial water changes of 40-50% each week. In planted tanks, provided the fish load is in balance, you can get away with smaller/fewer water changes, but without plants you have no other means of keeping the water clean except changing it. Filters move water around but it is the same water, and while they assist in biological filtration and may do chemical filtration if you use carbon or whatever, they still do not perform the same as plants. The pwc is essential in non-planted tanks.

The above is during normal times; daily pwc are often good as when a tank is cycling, but not always. Your cloudiness doesn't seem related to water issues if your test results are accurate, so it is possibly simply bacterial and not an issue for the fish. Bacterial cloudiness will be worsened by water changes, so I would not not do more than the normal weekly pwc and let the cloudiness clear on its own as I suspect it will. I have seen similar.

And I second rsn, the plants will benefit your fish in several ways.

Byron.
 
#8 ·
If you only had three zebra danios and some sort of algae eater, there are only going to be enough bacteria in the tank to handle their bioload. Adding a red tailed shark and seven tiger barbs all at once is adding around 200% more fish than were already in the tank. There's no way the bacteria are going to be able to multiply fast enough to handle the new fish in the tank so you get an ammonia spike and the bacteria bloom (i.e. milky water) that comes with it. The ammonia could have gone away by the time you tested the water but I suspect that's probably the culprit. Just keep an eye on those parameters and do water changes if you get readings for ammonia and/or nitrite, do the weekly water changes Byron suggested once the tank is cycled and once everything is stable you can begin stocking the tank again but do this slowly to avoid another mini-cycle.
 
#9 ·
thanks for all the advice its been great. when i came home from work today the cloudiness was almost gone so i think the cycle is starting to kick in and all my test are still the same. i will be adding real plants this week after i do some reserch on them. if anyone has any advice for the plants it would be much apriciated. one other thing my redtailed shark is still small about 2in. and he dosnt seem to get to the food as quikly as all the other fish do should i be worried hes not eating enouf food.
 
#10 ·
What sort of light is over this tank? If fluorescent, how many tubes and are they full length (end to end)? And what type of tubes now (this is printed at one end of the tube, give us all the info)? Light is the single most important aspect of planted tanks, and I can offer some suggestions when I know the light situation.

Sinking tablet or pellet food for bottom fish should provide food for the shark. He will find it on the bottom.
 
#11 ·
24" 20w flouresent it came with the tank but willing to switch if need be for the plants. also i have the sinking waffers but the tiger barbs pounce on it and wont let the shark get to close.
 
#12 ·
i have a one 24" 20w flourecent light if need be ill bye a new one for the plants. also with the plants do i just bury the roots in the rocks off my tank or is there something special i need to buy.
i do have sinking tablets but the tiger barbs sworm on them and the shark never has a chance to get them.
 
#13 ·
for 45g tank thats way under, 20w / 45g = .44 watts per gallon, most recommend 2-4 watts per gallon but anything over 1 should at least keep low light plants alive but they might not have much growth, I suggest you take a couple hours and read over the guide and posts in the freshwater planted area of the forums. And understand when picking plants it is just as involved as picking fish, each type of plant likes its own specific requirements, some will want fine substraight others more aerated while others will grow on rocks, take a couple of hours and start reading.
 
#14 ·
First, to clarify the watts per gallon. For 20 years I have maintained lush planted aquaria with less than 1 watt per gallon. Anyone who doubts this should take a look at the photos under my "Aquariums" at the left under my ID name. There are two 40w tubes over each of those tanks, a 70g, 90g and 115g respectively. And I don't think there is much wrong with my plant growth. I still read articles in AFI and TFH about "you can't grow plants with less than 2-3 watts minimum" and I shudder. That is simply inaccurate.

Now, down to business to help eighty80. How long and wide is your tank? I want to get a better understanding of how the light covers it in terms of surface. I will suggest some tubes then. And plants.

Also, by "rocks" I am assuming you mean the gravel, which we call the substrate? Is is regular aquarium gravel, or larger? This is important too, so I need to get an idea of what sort of substrate you have.

Trust me, you can have a beautiful planted aquarium with the light fixture you have, and probably the gravel. But to ensure success, I need to know the details. There is a 4-part series of articles at the head of the Aquarium Plants section of this forum, what we call "stickies" because they are general guides. It explains the principles behind what I call the natural planted aquarium [I wrote them]. Have a read for background.

Byron.

P.S. Redtail sharks have a somewhat aggressive nature; I suspect if he gets annoyed at the barbs he will let them know it. Just make sure enough sinking food gets in to satisfy them and leave some for the shark. I always feed the flake first and let the upper fish eat a bit before I drop in the sinking food; they are less likely to go after it immediately.
 
#17 ·
I refer to the expert ^

I agree the watts per gallon thing does seem out of whack.
Very kind, thanks. And, before I forget, a hearty welcome to Tropical Fish Keeping. :wave:

The watts per gallon is useful as a starting point if one is talking about regular (T8) fluorescents; but with all the advanced tubes that have higher intensity, the wpg doesn't stand up. And it has been slow to get some of these people to realize that many plants will grow fine with less light. I came onto this aspect because I wanted dimmer light for the fish; forest fish come from very dimly lit waters, and bright aquaria stress them out. Also the type of plants is important; some need more light than I provide, so I don't try to grow them.

Byron.
 
#16 ·
thanks for the help my tank is 12x24x36 the rocks in my tank are your regular gravel with a very smooth surface. i will read your stickies later tonight. again thanks for the help.
 
#18 ·
thanks for the help my tank is 12x24x36 the rocks in my tank are your regular gravel with a very smooth surface. i will read your stickies later tonight. again thanks for the help.
You are certainly welcome.

My 33g is 36 by 18 by 12 and I have one tube over it. No problem with most plants.

You could go with a full spectrum tube by Sylvannia, Phillips or GE, available in hardware stores; these will have around 6500K of colour temperature (the Kelvin number designates the "colour" of the light, something that will make more sense when you've read the articles). These tubes have names like daylight, daylight deluxe, etc. However, if you don't mind the additional cost, with a single tube over a tank that is 24 inches deep you could go with a Hagen Life-Glo tube. These have a special coating on half the inside that reflects the light more intensely out the opposite side. I personally think you can manage either way.

For plants, the swords (Echinodorus), crypts (Cryptocoryne), Vallisneria, Sagittaria, Anubias, JAva Fern, Java Moss (on the wood), would work, and some of the stem plants; these latter tend to need more light, but Pennywort does well in less and some of the Hygrophila do as well.

You'll probably have more questions along the way, don't hesitate to ask.

Byron.
 
#19 ·
almost done reading your articles there very informitive and to the point. easy to read. i came across were you state that biological filters could be bad for plants. i have a undergravel filter with 2 power heads this is considerd a biological filter right? if so will i need to turn off the power heads in order to have live plants.
 
#21 ·
almost done reading your articles there very informitive and to the point. easy to read. i came across were you state that biological filters could be bad for plants. i have a undergravel filter with 2 power heads this is considerd a biological filter right? if so will i need to turn off the power heads in order to have live plants.
If the tank has been running with fish in it, you can't just turn off the undergravel filter. It will pollute the tank and possibly kill the fish.

Like any filter, an UG works by drawing water through the media; in this case, the media is the gravel substrate above the filterplate. Aerobic bacteria colonize and build up in the substrate (media), including most of the nitrifying bacteria that convert ammonia and nitrite, and these require oxygen which they obtain from the water passing through; if the flow of water is stopped, the bacteria will be starved of oxygen and die, and it only takes a few hours. This is my chief objection to UG filters; if the power goes out for several hours, the bacteria will die. Not only does this cause problems with nitrogen gas and such, but it kills most of the nitrifying bacteria which causes a new cycle in the tank--if the fish live so long.

It is possible to have a planted tank with an UG filter, but it is an obstacle. Not only due to the above concern on its own, but the plant roots will clog the filter plate impeding the flow of water, and this again leads to the above issue. Removing the UG filter means taking out the gravel and rinsing it to free it of most of the bacteria. Better to start with a clean system. If you go this route, establish your new filter first, by which I mean, set it up in the tank and run it for a couple weeks (without rinsing or cleaning it) to establish a bacteria colony. Then it will help when the UG is removed and the gravel rinsed.

For a 45g tank you could use a canister filter or a good sponge filter. The powerheads if left would create additional issues by the excess water flow, depending upon how powerful they are of course.

Byron.
 
#20 ·
You definitely don't want to be using an UGF in a planted tank. They have enough problems as it is (without using them in a reverse flow setup, anyway) but in a planted tank they're even more problematic due to roots.

As for your shark, they're also mostly herbivorous and do a lot of grazing on algae so it's not really uncommon to not really see them eating much yet still being nice and fat and healthy. That said, you could try getting the barbs to one end of the tank via flakes and then dropping the algae wafer on the other end of the tank toward the shark. You could also try feeding the shark right before you turn the lights out as he'll have a much easier time finding it in the dark than the barbs will.
 
#22 ·
byron i apreciate all the help but i think im going to stick with the plastic plants. its been 6 months since i had my tank and its finaly working corectly. i dont want to take all those rocks plants and decor out of my tank and start over. my text tank when i get it down the way i will definitly use real plants. again thanks for everything you all have been a help and i have learned alot.
 
#24 ·
Well, hauling the UGF out of there would certainly be something of a pain.

Proposed solution: buy a bigger tank, set it up to be a planted tank from the get-go, move your fish from the 45g into that, tear the 45g tank down and then set that one up as a planted tank once it's empty. Presto, two planted tanks! (Because you totally needed an excuse to get another tank, right? ;-))
 
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