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Baking soda

This is a discussion on Baking soda within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Originally Posted by Geomancer No one is saying it won't raise the KH of the water. The problem is the why are you trying ...

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Old 12-02-2012, 12:49 PM   #11
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geomancer View Post
No one is saying it won't raise the KH of the water.

The problem is the why are you trying to raise the KH.

The issue is that doing this is only a temporary solution to a problem that may not exist in the first place and unless you pay very, very, extremely careful attention to the exact amount you add, when, and how, you will create pH fluctuations that are extremely harmful for your fish.

I'm stressing this because it sounds like you are questioning whether it works or not, while we are saying yes it works but is a bad idea.

If you state your problem, with numbers, we may be able to find a better solution or even if a solution is needed in the first place. "Don't mess with what's not broke"
Im not trying to raise my KH at all.
My issue is dis-information. It seems as thou 50% of what I hear and read says baking soda to raise KH...yet the other half says dont use it.
I want to see some hard data on the subject.
This reminds me of the days of old when we didnt do water changes and aged water was good...now its the complete opposite.

Im sure there are many us who have a lot invested into this hobby and want provide as much helpfull info along to us newbies as well as seasoned aquarist. But the amount of disinformation out there is ridiculous. Even aquarium stores that have been around for years will give you the complete opposite answers from one to another. There is a LFS that is owned by a guy who's been in business for decades and certainly knows what he's doing as he has the credentials to back it up yet I take some of what he says with a grain of salt.
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Old 12-02-2012, 12:53 PM   #12
 
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Originally Posted by marshallsea View Post
Are the chemists with PHDs tropical fish experts or are they chemists who say baking soda will change KH levels? Rocket scientists are smart but I wouldn't let one rebuild the automatic transmission in an automobile. Just a thought.
We got automobile makers in this country who cant build a transmission either.
Just a thought
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Old 12-02-2012, 01:35 PM   #13
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikejp67 View Post
Im not trying to raise my KH at all.
My issue is dis-information. It seems as thou 50% of what I hear and read says baking soda to raise KH...yet the other half says dont use it.
I want to see some hard data on the subject.
This reminds me of the days of old when we didnt do water changes and aged water was good...now its the complete opposite.

Im sure there are many us who have a lot invested into this hobby and want provide as much helpfull info along to us newbies as well as seasoned aquarist. But the amount of disinformation out there is ridiculous. Even aquarium stores that have been around for years will give you the complete opposite answers from one to another. There is a LFS that is owned by a guy who's been in business for decades and certainly knows what he's doing as he has the credentials to back it up yet I take some of what he says with a grain of salt.
This is a very valid point. One must always consider the source of any information. There was a time when we used printed books as our guide, but today most of us rely on the internet. But this has risks. Anyone with the money can set up a web site and promote his/her opinions; these may or may not be credible. And there is no real degree of peer review as there is in the scientific community. A scientist can propose this or that, but it is immediately open to scrutiny by his peers, and will soon be refuted if in error.

And this takes me to what I write, since you earlier questioned my credentials. I never give my personal opinion unless I specifically state that it is my opinion. I research issues and my articles and the freshwater profiles I have authored rely on proven scientific fact from reliable sources which is the majority. If any reliable source varies, I indicate this in the profile. Unless I make errors, which can happen, the information can be trusted as coming from the highest authorities on the subject.

This never means that it may later change; science moves forward by discoveries and often we discover what we didn't know previously, and opinions change accordingly. As science learned more about pheromones and allomones, which were basically unknown to aquarists 50 years ago, we moved forward on the issue of water changes, to use your example. Aquarists unlike almost all other hobbies are dealing with science, totally: living creatures in a closed and very artificial environment that have considerable consequences for the health of the system and the fish in it.

Byron.
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:13 PM   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikejp67 View Post
We got automobile makers in this country who cant build a transmission either.
Just a thought
Very true. I've seen a rash of trucks with less than a thousand miles that have had to go back to the dealer for a new transmission. Then you see the 30 year old car with 300k miles on it and the trans is good as new. Sadly, even the most dependable brands now buy parts from the lowest bidder.
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Old 12-03-2012, 07:50 AM   #15
 
I guess I'd better get my fish tank transmission looked at?

For what it's worth, it seems to me that adding anything other than clean, potable water increases the maintenance and the risks of something going wrong. Without a doubt, messing with pH can quickly spell disaster. Just my non credentialed $.02.

Last edited by AbbeysDad; 12-03-2012 at 07:55 AM..
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:53 AM   #16
pop
 
hello:
I have read that water always returns to its natural chemistry over time so trying to change the carbon hardness would only be a short duration solution. pop
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:26 PM   #17
 
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Originally Posted by Byron View Post
This is a very valid point. One must always consider the source of any information. There was a time when we used printed books as our guide, but today most of us rely on the internet. But this has risks. Anyone with the money can set up a web site and promote his/her opinions; these may or may not be credible. And there is no real degree of peer review as there is in the scientific community. A scientist can propose this or that, but it is immediately open to scrutiny by his peers, and will soon be refuted if in error.

And this takes me to what I write, since you earlier questioned my credentials. I never give my personal opinion unless I specifically state that it is my opinion. I research issues and my articles and the freshwater profiles I have authored rely on proven scientific fact from reliable sources which is the majority. If any reliable source varies, I indicate this in the profile. Unless I make errors, which can happen, the information can be trusted as coming from the highest authorities on the subject.

This never means that it may later change; science moves forward by discoveries and often we discover what we didn't know previously, and opinions change accordingly. As science learned more about pheromones and allomones, which were basically unknown to aquarists 50 years ago, we moved forward on the issue of water changes, to use your example. Aquarists unlike almost all other hobbies are dealing with science, totally: living creatures in a closed and very artificial environment that have considerable consequences for the health of the system and the fish in it.

Byron.
So, what are your credentials? You wrote nearly everything on this site relating to fresh water. Im curious to know whether i should be following your methods or follow people who dedicated their lives to fish keeping and breeding and have phd's in chemistry and zoology.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:34 PM   #18
 
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Originally Posted by mikejp67 View Post
So, what are your credentials? You wrote nearly everything on this site relating to fresh water. Im curious to know whether i should be following your methods or follow people who dedicated their lives to fish keeping and breeding and have phd's in chemistry and zoology.
The profiles here are my compilation of scientific data from ichthyologists and biologists who have a thorough knowledge of their respective subjects. It is not surprising that they tend to agree too, and in the very few cases where there has been a differance that is mentioned so those reading the profiles have all the relevant factual data.

As for my articles, they all have extensive bibliographies at the end. If you want to argue the science, go and talk to some of them.

The earth is spherical; I can't prove this, but I accept the scientific evidence that it is. There are those who believe it is flat. That's their opinion, though it counters the science. Follow whom you like.
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:53 PM   #19
 
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Originally Posted by Byron View Post
The profiles here are my compilation of scientific data from ichthyologists and biologists who have a thorough knowledge of their respective subjects. It is not surprising that they tend to agree too, and in the very few cases where there has been a differance that is mentioned so those reading the profiles have all the relevant factual data.

As for my articles, they all have extensive bibliographies at the end. If you want to argue the science, go and talk to some of them.

The earth is spherical; I can't prove this, but I accept the scientific evidence that it is. There are those who believe it is flat. That's their opinion, though it counters the science. Follow whom you like.
Ok, you have no professional credentials.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:49 PM   #20
 
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Originally Posted by mikejp67 View Post
Ok, you have no professional credentials.
Just for the record, anyone can say they have a phd in zoology or chemistry. On the internet, I can be a zebra with an AA in engineering, and you could never prove one way or another if that's true or not. ;)
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