Another "I'm new to this, help me" question about filters - Page 2 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #11 of 17 Old 06-14-2011, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 1077 View Post
I am currently using reverse flow UG filtration on 55 gallon tank holding seven Plecos while waiting for undergravel plate to fit 75 gallon tank. Two Aquaclear 70 powerheads in reverse flow ,and Aquaclear 110 filter to clean the water being pushed back up through the gravel are being utilizedl until the eheim canister arrives that will then take over the cleaning of that which is forced up through the gravel as opposed to Traditional UG filtration where crud is being pulled down into the substrate.
It's a no brainer in my view as well as those who successfully use this type filtration.
In a 55g or larger tank, using the AC110 or an Eheim canister, with sufficient bio-media, the UGF serves little purpose. The UGF still has value in smaller tanks with filters that do not not lend themselves well to bio-filtration. Think of it this way...use a foam mechanical pad in the canister and fill the rest with gravel and there's your UGF in a box - better still, fill it with bio-media and now yer cookin.
Each to his own and no need for personal attack, just my $.02 that yer better off w/o the UGF in the larger tank sizes.

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Last edited by AbbeysDad; 06-14-2011 at 03:47 PM.
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post #12 of 17 Old 06-14-2011, 03:45 PM
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...
Filtration is one part of maintenance. Partial water changes is another, and the benefits of these cannot be achieved by any filtration, regardless. But the benefits of regular partial water changes can outweigh filtration, again depending upon the tank. In other words, all things being equal and in certain situations, a regular schedule of water changes can be adequate maintenance on its own, whereas filtration without water changes is not. All else being equal, mind.

Byron.
Absolutely - the WWC is the first best way to maintain water quality.

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post #13 of 17 Old 06-14-2011, 10:55 PM
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A lot of aquarists mistakenly think that more filters will be better filtration, meaning they can then add more fish. Wrong. Filtration only achieves certain things, and if it is adequate for the tank--in terms of water volume, number and size of fish and other biological considerations--adding on more filters beyond this level will not improve and may actually work in reverse. The filter must suit the tank, by which I mean those aspects I mentioned in the previous sentence.

Filtration is one part of maintenance. Partial water changes is another, and the benefits of these cannot be achieved by any filtration, regardless. But the benefits of regular partial water changes can outweigh filtration, again depending upon the tank. In other words, all things being equal and in certain situations, a regular schedule of water changes can be adequate maintenance on its own, whereas filtration without water changes is not. All else being equal, mind.

Byron.
Agreed. Must keep in mind that advertised flow rates for filters are considerably less in reality once filter media is placed in the filter and head height is also a factor.
Would always recommend filter for next size tank when considering adequate filtration .
Water changes regardless of filtration will ALWAYS result in healthier fishes in my opinion.

The most important medication in your fish medicine cabinet is.. Clean water.
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post #14 of 17 Old 06-14-2011, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by AbbeysDad View Post
In a 55g or larger tank, using the AC110 or an Eheim canister, with sufficient bio-media, the UGF serves little purpose. The UGF still has value in smaller tanks with filters that do not not lend themselves well to bio-filtration. Think of it this way...use a foam mechanical pad in the canister and fill the rest with gravel and there's your UGF in a box - better still, fill it with bio-media and now yer cookin.
Each to his own and no need for personal attack, just my $.02 that yer better off w/o the UGF in the larger tank sizes.
Sorry, Was not intended to be personal attack.
You have admitted in previous threads that you have not tried Reverse flow UGF .
Try ,do,then speak to this type of filtration.
Canister filter I will use will be filled with mechanical media and substrate will represent biological filtration.
Been keeping fishes for nearly 40 years.Would not waste my time,, nor place fishes health in jepoardy if the filtration method was not highly effective based on a few years of expierimentation with various forms of filtration.(as well as other's expieriences)
Would not have commented at all in this thread were it not for your statement that there is no evidence to support Reverse flow UGF over traditional UGF especially when one has not tried it.
Try,do,expieriment,then speak.

The most important medication in your fish medicine cabinet is.. Clean water.
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post #15 of 17 Old 06-15-2011, 10:56 AM
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Sorry, Was not intended to be personal attack.
You have admitted in previous threads that you have not tried Reverse flow UGF .
Try ,do,then speak to this type of filtration.
Canister filter I will use will be filled with mechanical media and substrate will represent biological filtration.
Been keeping fishes for nearly 40 years.Would not waste my time,, nor place fishes health in jepoardy if the filtration method was not highly effective based on a few years of expierimentation with various forms of filtration.(as well as other's expieriences)
Would not have commented at all in this thread were it not for your statement that there is no evidence to support Reverse flow UGF over traditional UGF especially when one has not tried it.
Try,do,expieriment,then speak.
All condescending aside, I/we don't need to do individual testing in uncontrolled experiments when so much testing has already been done and redone in the 30+ year controversy of UGF's. I too was in the hobby 40 years ago and had success with conventional UGF's. I currently use one in my 10g and it works great! I was surprised to learn of the controversy...but can't dispute the reports that conclude that the original design had issues and adding power heads, including reverse flow offered only modest improvement. (Claiming non-uniform water flow through the gravel bed).
Like I said, I used and use conventional UGF's with success, but perhaps only due to routine gravel cleaning as otherwise I see the likely failure - which reverse flow should not have.
However, all said and done, UGF, regardless of flow direction is now old school, especially or at least for larger tanks. Modern day power filters, many HOBs and all canisters for larger tanks have ample capacity for bio-media in addition to mechanical/chemical), essentially making UGF's effectively obsolete.
But it's your tank and your decision and no written verbiage here changes that. :)

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post #16 of 17 Old 06-18-2011, 10:40 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks

Thanks to all for your comments.
I went to the store and put 3 Neon tetras in the tank (had 4, 1 died), the water is still cloudy and my wife is demanding clear water . I'm considering either a Current Subcurrent filter that skims water off the top to filter it with a flowrate of 160gph or a Fluval U2 submersible. What do you think of that? I'm not overly attached to the UGF, I've kept aquariums before without them.
What I would really like to find is an unpowered box for carbon and sponge that I can power with the powerhead.
Regarding a too fast flow, is there a way to slow it down if the filters don't have adjustable output? Create a barrier, or split the outflow into 2 or more vents maybe?

Last edited by JimBinSC; 06-18-2011 at 10:47 PM.
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post #17 of 17 Old 06-19-2011, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by JimBinSC View Post
Thanks to all for your comments.
I went to the store and put 3 Neon tetras in the tank (had 4, 1 died), the water is still cloudy and my wife is demanding clear water . I'm considering either a Current Subcurrent filter that skims water off the top to filter it with a flowrate of 160gph or a Fluval U2 submersible. What do you think of that? I'm not overly attached to the UGF, I've kept aquariums before without them.
What I would really like to find is an unpowered box for carbon and sponge that I can power with the powerhead.
Regarding a too fast flow, is there a way to slow it down if the filters don't have adjustable output? Create a barrier, or split the outflow into 2 or more vents maybe?
"Cloudy" water is to be expected in new tanks, and you can't rush biological issues, nature simply works its own way. Any meddling will likely cause more trouble. Patience is a virtue indeed.

A simple sponge filter would be adequate for what is being considered. The fish should come first here.

Byron Hosking, BMus, MA
Vancouver, BC, Canada

The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian. [unknown source]

Something we all need to remember: The fish you've acquired was quite happy not being owned by you, minding its own business. If you’re going to take it under your wing then you’re responsible for it. Every aspect of its life is under your control, from water quality and temperature to swimming space. [Nathan Hill in PFK]
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