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Adding Soultions to Water...

This is a discussion on Adding Soultions to Water... within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> yeah you won't always have problems with salt. WHat happens though is lets say you do get a large outbreak in ich somehow in ...

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Adding Soultions to Water...
Old 06-11-2007, 12:12 PM   #11
 
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yeah you won't always have problems with salt. WHat happens though is lets say you do get a large outbreak in ich somehow in your tank. Your fish are actually weaker now than they would be if you hadn't used salt and would be less effective at fighting off the parasites. I'm not saying that salt will harm the fish itself, but it makes the fish cells weaker and the fish are used to not having to expend a lot of energy. If they ever do come across a serious disease, they would be less likely to be able to fight it off with their own imune system. The website you posted is from a fish sales website, of course they will promote the use of salt because they want to sell it. If you look in fish magazines and non-biased websites, a lot of them will tell you not to use salt regularly. In a livebearer tank though, I will admit there are benefits to using salts. Many livebearers are accustomed to the increased electrolytes in the water and some come from a more brackish environment. So like I keep saying, there is no one way that is 100% better than another...to each his own
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Old 06-11-2007, 01:35 PM   #12
 
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Wel I don't know the technicals on using salt I do know this. I stopped using salt when i got plants because the plants would not grow with it. I used the correct amount and even tested it to make sure it was correct with a hydrometer. While using salt, I never had an outbreak of Ich, velvet nor did I ever see fin rot. Once I stopped using it I saw the worst outbreak of Ich I have ever had in my tanks and this was 6 months after not using it. Remember though that this is just my experience with it.

Salt is a great treatment for ich, a lot of highly renound aquarists use it to treat ich even in planted tank but none of them use it on a regular basis. It is best to use it as a treatment and not as a staple regiment. Many freshwater fish will actually move into brachish water in the lower river systems they live in to get rid of parasites and salt fish will use fresh water for the same but neither is going to make it their new home.
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Old 06-12-2007, 11:41 PM   #13
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mHeinitz57
Yeah its safe but personally I try to put in as little chemicals as possible. What kind of fish do you have in the tank? Do you have plants in there?Here is my opinion on each of the things you said.

Aqua Plus (Tap Water Conditioner): decent water conditioner. I would also suggest Prime and Amquel Plus.

Crystal Clear II (Clears Cloudy Water): cloudy water is related to two things usually...small particles in the water that are too small for the filter to pick up or a bacterial bloom, usually associated with too much ammonia. Crystal Clear is what is called a floculant, it binds small particles together so they are big enough for the filter to pick up. The only two reasons you would need this is if there is a lot of small excess food in the water or dust from new gravel. Both of those will filter out eventually though. Crystal Clear is a product that usually shouldnt need to be used on a regular basis. If your cloudy water is a result of bacterial bloom, then you have a bacteria issue and the tank is not established enough. Some people use Crystal CLear to try and treat green water (algea) but that can usually be treated by simply keeping the lights off more.

Cycle (Reduces Fish Loss): good product to use but not a neccessity. Personally I add bacteria starter (I use Stability) everytime I do water changes but its still not needed.

Water Softener Pillow: This depends on what kind of fish you have and if you are doing plants and such. THe majority of fish you buy from your local fish store will withstand hard water. Every store I have worked at has had there water very hard (at the top of the chart). I don't adjust my water because throwing a fish from a store with hard water into a tank with soft water can affect the fish. If you want to soften the water that is fine, but make sure you can keep it stable and not have any large fluctuations.

pH reducer: This is the same deal with the water softener pillow. Most fish will withstand high pH and most stores have their tanks at 8-8.4. My tank at home is in that range as well. Again, I dont adjust it because if I buy a fish from 8.4 water and throw it into my 7.0 tank, the fish could go into shock. If you want to adjust pH, that is fine but make sure you can keep it stable and without any large fluctuations. I have heard complaints about pH adjustment chemicals that the change is not permenant and they have to constantly monitor the water and make adjustments.

Aquarium Salt: This also depends on the kinfd of fish you have. Personally I don't agree with keeping salt in a tank at all times. I use it only if my fish get sick. Using salt is the equivelent of humans resting when they catch a cold. You rest to allow your body to exert less energy and be able to focus it's strength on fighting off the disease. However, if you were to spend your whole life sleeping in bed, you would get a very weakened immune system as well as a weakened circulatory and respiratory system...the same happens with fish.

I don't know if that helps at all because I don't really know if you have a certain goal in mind and there are particular reasons you add the chemicals. There are pretty much upsides and downsides to everything in the fish hobby. Chemically, I only use Prime water conditioner and Stability bacteria starter. Occasionally I throw in a little Florish plant fertilizer but my plants seem to do ok without it.
wow! this was very helpful. I have two kissing gouramis in a 29 Gallon Tank. One is about 5 inches the other is about 1 inch. I had another small gourami, but one died recently because the other small one wouldnt allow it to eat. The big one is lazy, and only comes up to eat. I only have artificial plants, some artificial drift wood, and a stone.

I get most of my info on my fish from this website: http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/an...inggourami.htm

My PH is about 8.4 now and the KH is about 300. I was going to buy a PH Decreaser to reduce both. I bought the Softener Pillow because according to my test kit, the GH levels were nearing 300, and it did actually work. Like I said I get my info from the website above, and I want to keep the environment in my aquarium ideal for the fish. I've had several die on me in the past. So I bought a bigger tank, which seems to be working. I really like Kissing Gouramis, but I want add more fish, without putting them in danger. Any ideas? WIll I need to buy a bigger tank?
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Old 06-12-2007, 11:52 PM   #14
 
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I would start by looking at your water supply. I've found my chloromines are high in the tap water, so I know how it goes with crummy tapwater. If your tapwater isn't the best, try getting RO or DI water. 8.4 is pretty low acidity for fish and more suited for African fish; though per referenced site, it's "acceptable" for the kissing gourami.

As for buying a bigger tank, this still doesn't address the water issue.

If you get a device (or buy converted water) to remove the chemicals from the water, slowly move switch out the water. Sudden crashes (such as doing pH alteration chemicals) can cause stress in the fish. Getting better water without chemically altering is your best approach to getting to a situation where you can add more fish. It requires less maintenance and it doesn't cause crashes which will stress and potentially kill the fish.
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Old 06-13-2007, 06:16 AM   #15
 
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I have a pink kissing with a pretty good assortment of fish and it works well. I have an angel in there which people have told me is a bad idea but they dont even touch eachother. Pink Kissing gouramis are in that weird class of semi-aggressive fish because often times they can be extremely peaceful but they can be pretty mean as well. I've heard they like to suck slime coating off of other fish and the angel (being a large, flat-bodied fish) is a prime target for that. With a larger kissing gourami like you have, you may notice more of that aggression so you may want to steer clear of angels. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with trying to make the most ideal conditions for your fish but always know the difference between your tank at home and the water at the fish store you get fish from. If there is a substatial difference, you will want to drip acclimate.
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Old 06-13-2007, 11:12 PM   #16
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mHeinitz57
I have a pink kissing with a pretty good assortment of fish and it works well. I have an angel in there which people have told me is a bad idea but they dont even touch eachother. Pink Kissing gouramis are in that weird class of semi-aggressive fish because often times they can be extremely peaceful but they can be pretty mean as well. I've heard they like to suck slime coating off of other fish and the angel (being a large, flat-bodied fish) is a prime target for that. With a larger kissing gourami like you have, you may notice more of that aggression so you may want to steer clear of angels. Like I said, there is nothing wrong with trying to make the most ideal conditions for your fish but always know the difference between your tank at home and the water at the fish store you get fish from. If there is a substatial difference, you will want to drip acclimate.
whats drip acclimate?

when i got my two new fish, I poured some of the water in the tank into the bag with the fish then i left it for about 15 minutes. Then i did again and left it for another 15 minutes... then i took the fish out of the bag, and put them in the water. It seemed to have worked. They were doing so well... then one became very aggressive towards to the other, and it ended up dying.
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Old 06-14-2007, 09:15 AM   #17
 
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Drip acclimation is when you set up tubing to slowly add water to the bag to slowly aclimate. Depending on the fish, I will transfer them from the bag directly into the tank as soon as possible to minimze stress. Others I will slowly switch bag water for tank water every 5 minutes for 30 to 60 minutes depending on the fish. The biggest thing is the type of fish and the stress the fish is going through being in the bag. As mHeinitz57 said, it could also be a drastic difference in waters that would require the slow acclimation. Most of my tanks are fairly close to my LFS's tanks.
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Old 06-15-2007, 11:30 AM   #18
 
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Ok, I agree too. That is a lot of "stuff" to add. I use a water conditioner to remove chloramines and nothing else other than some melafix/pimafix once in a while if I have anything going on, and have never had a problem. I use tap water and it's very hard and has a high pH but I never adjust anything, it leaves too much room for error and stress on the fish. Not to mention that sounds like an awful lot of work for you. I do add a tiny bit of salt (just a bit because of invertebrate and scaless fish) if there is a stressful situation but that is it.

If you really feel you need add all of that, I recommend RO and you'll never have to do all of that again.
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Old 06-16-2007, 12:26 PM   #19
 
What exactly is RO and DI?

What does it stand for?

Is it a machine? Is it a particular type of water?


The reason I want a bigger tank is so i can add more fish.

so yall are saying dont add the salt?
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Old 06-16-2007, 12:39 PM   #20
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mHeinitz57
Yeah its safe but personally I try to put in as little chemicals as possible. What kind of fish do you have in the tank? Do you have plants in there?Here is my opinion on each of the things you said.

Aqua Plus (Tap Water Conditioner): decent water conditioner. I would also suggest Prime and Amquel Plus.

Crystal Clear II (Clears Cloudy Water): cloudy water is related to two things usually...small particles in the water that are too small for the filter to pick up or a bacterial bloom, usually associated with too much ammonia. Crystal Clear is what is called a floculant, it binds small particles together so they are big enough for the filter to pick up. The only two reasons you would need this is if there is a lot of small excess food in the water or dust from new gravel. Both of those will filter out eventually though. Crystal Clear is a product that usually shouldnt need to be used on a regular basis. If your cloudy water is a result of bacterial bloom, then you have a bacteria issue and the tank is not established enough. Some people use Crystal CLear to try and treat green water (algea) but that can usually be treated by simply keeping the lights off more.

Cycle (Reduces Fish Loss): good product to use but not a neccessity. Personally I add bacteria starter (I use Stability) everytime I do water changes but its still not needed.

Water Softener Pillow: This depends on what kind of fish you have and if you are doing plants and such. THe majority of fish you buy from your local fish store will withstand hard water. Every store I have worked at has had there water very hard (at the top of the chart). I don't adjust my water because throwing a fish from a store with hard water into a tank with soft water can affect the fish. If you want to soften the water that is fine, but make sure you can keep it stable and not have any large fluctuations.

pH reducer: This is the same deal with the water softener pillow. Most fish will withstand high pH and most stores have their tanks at 8-8.4. My tank at home is in that range as well. Again, I dont adjust it because if I buy a fish from 8.4 water and throw it into my 7.0 tank, the fish could go into shock. If you want to adjust pH, that is fine but make sure you can keep it stable and without any large fluctuations. I have heard complaints about pH adjustment chemicals that the change is not permenant and they have to constantly monitor the water and make adjustments.

Aquarium Salt: This also depends on the kinfd of fish you have. Personally I don't agree with keeping salt in a tank at all times. I use it only if my fish get sick. Using salt is the equivelent of humans resting when they catch a cold. You rest to allow your body to exert less energy and be able to focus it's strength on fighting off the disease. However, if you were to spend your whole life sleeping in bed, you would get a very weakened immune system as well as a weakened circulatory and respiratory system...the same happens with fish.

I don't know if that helps at all because I don't really know if you have a certain goal in mind and there are particular reasons you add the chemicals. There are pretty much upsides and downsides to everything in the fish hobby. Chemically, I only use Prime water conditioner and Stability bacteria starter. Occasionally I throw in a little Florish plant fertilizer but my plants seem to do ok without it.
I just ran out of Aqua Plus... I will look into the ones you suggested.

Thanks. I was actually using the crystal clear every time I did a water change.

I think i'll stick with the Cycle for now. Im new to this fish thing. So im not familiar with bateria levels and such. The Cycle seems like itll help.

Can the water turn back to being hard after I soften it?

I havent used the aquarium salt yet. I actually bought it because I needed it to recharge the pillow. But if you guys are saying itll weaken the fish, then i wont add it in.
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