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Adding on to my new community tank

4K views 12 replies 4 participants last post by  crazy4fish 
#1 ·
Well, I've finally got my new 85 gallon tank up and running, yay! I've got a Magnum 350 filter, play sand substrate, three 24" coralife freshwater single florescent 65W lights. The tank is going to be heavily planted.

I'm cycling with fish, unfortunately, but my other tank is drastically overstocked, and this is better than keeping them all in the other one, so I'm adding a few at a time, until all my old fish are in my new tank.

Here's what I have:
-1 chinese algae eater (I know, I know)
-1 corydora schwartz (the others have not survived)
-2 male honey gourami
-3 guppies (2 female, 1 male)
-too many baby guppies to count

What I'm adding:
-1 Bolivian Ram
-8-10 Threadfin Rainbowfish
-5 corydora schwartz
-2-3 female honey gourami
-a bunch of Red Cherry Shrimp and Trumpet Snails

So, any ideas on anything else to add? It's not that I don't have plenty of ideas, but I'd love to hear other opinions, as I'm sure there are plenty of things I haven't thought of! Preferably not plant eaters though, as this is going to be a heavily planted tank.
 
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#2 ·
okiemavis said:
Well, I've finally got my new 85 gallon tank up and running, yay! I've got a Magnum 350 filter, play sand substrate, three 24" coralife freshwater single florescent 65W lights. The tank is going to be heavily planted.

I'm cycling with fish, unfortunately, but my other tank is drastically overstocked, and this is better than keeping them all in the other one, so I'm adding a few at a time, until all my old fish are in my new tank.

Here's what I have:
-1 chinese algae eater (I know, I know)
-1 corydora schwartz (the others have not survived)
-2 male honey gourami
-3 guppies (2 female, 1 male)
-too many baby guppies to count

What I'm adding:
-1 Bolivian Ram
-8-10 Threadfin Rainbowfish
-5 corydora schwartz
-2-3 female honey gourami
-a bunch of Red Cherry Shrimp and Trumpet Snails

So, any ideas on anything else to add? It's not that I don't have plenty of ideas, but I'd love to hear other opinions, as I'm sure there are plenty of things I haven't thought of! Preferably not plant eaters though, as this is going to be a heavily planted tank.
Well, for starters, I would be concerned about that chinese algae eater. It will prey on your fish when it gets large enough, they are known to be very aggressive. Another concern is in mixing a bolivian ram in with the guppys. The guppys are likely to become food. Same thing applies with the threadfin rainbow.. rams are too territorial and aggressive to mix with peaceful and fancy fish such as that. They do a lot of damage real quick, even in a larger tank. The chinese algae eater may also eat your cherry shrimp.

In a fully planted tank with the existing fish, the corys would be a good addition, and maybe some other smaller, peaceful fishes to go with them? There are a lot of tetras that would be options for you, some of the other rainbows (not threadfins, not compatible with threadfins), cherry barbs, gold barbs... lots and lots of options.
 
#3 ·
ok well i know bettababy said this already but you need to rehome that chinese algae eater.(you seem to already know that so i wont dwell on it :D ) i assume you will be getting rid of most of your baby guppies if there are too many to count? how many(if any)are you going to keep? i would leave out the ram as well. so if you leave out the algae eater and ram you could get the rainbowfish. :wink: so then you would have 6cories, 4-5gouramis, 3+guppies, 8-10threadfin rainbowfish and shrimp and snails right?
ok well i would add maybe some kuhli loaches, a school of neons/black neons, cherry barbs, deffinately some rummynoses, penguinfish, glassfish, killifish, whiteclouds, and spotted or harlequin rasboras.
 
#5 ·
really even dwarf gouramis? oh well sorry i didnt know that... mine was always fine with the other little fish. well instead of the threadfins could you add hralequin rasboras or cherry barbs or something like that?
 
#6 ·
Well I've got honey gourami, not dwarf gourami- and they seem pretty docile, I could be very wrong though. I'm quite fine just keeping the two of them and not adding more if this would keep the setup more peaceful.

Yes, I know Dan (the CAE) has to go! I love him so much though :(. On a side note, he and my cory are best friends. My cory likes to sleep on top of him and he follows my cory all around the tank. He should be alright for at least a few more months, but I'm going to get a river setup going for him- my first biotope, yay! I've also got some smaller tanks I can put him in if I start to loose fish.

I've heard so many conflicting reports on the rams! So many people say that they successfully keep them with tiny tetras, guppies, etc. Others say that they eat everything! I think I might just have to try it- I'll probably get rid of my guppies eventually anyway. They limit my tank so much, and they won't stop breeding!

The threadfins are kinda stuck with the tank. I keep trying to get my boyfriend to pick out fish, since he's been so supportive of my hobby taking over the new apartment. The only fish he's shown ANY interest in has been the threadfins, so I'd really love to work them into the tank.

As for barbs, I can't really say I'm interested in getting any. Firstly, I was under the impression that they weren't compatible with my gourami? Secondly, I really don't want such a nippy fish in my tank. I know people really like them, but I feel like it would limit my options in the future.
 
#7 ·
With the gouramis, the reason I suggest not mixing them with the threadfins, is because they tend to occupy the same territory. With the fragile fins on the rainbows, and grouamis who are very territorial, there is usally a conflict between them and threadfins don't fare will once a gourami has started picking at it.

As for the barbs, not all barbs are nippy and nasty. Cherry barbs and gold barbs are actually very peaceful, and can mix well with what you have going, while bringing a lot of color at the same time.

If you're going to try to mix the threadfins in with those gouramis, I would be sure to float a lot of dense plants at the surface of the tank for territory, and shelter. Also, remember that as the fish mature they will likely get more aggressive, as is the case with most fish.

In regards to the rams, each fish is individual, that applies with any species.. but rams being cichlids have the same aggressive habits when it comes to territory. The other thing to watch with the rams is the water params. Most rams will need softer water than a standard community tank will usually offer, and also higher temps. Small fish and any fish with long fins get to be targets if they get near ram territory, and rams tend to claim an awful lot for their own. Again, if you're thinking of attempting this, lots and lots of dense plants, caves down low and in various places in the tank so the rams can find enough for themselves without having to bother the others.... and just maybe you could get lucky. Please know that when rams settle in and are healthy, happy... if you have a pair you can expect them to spawn. You probably won't see any fry in a community tank (or you'll see your other fish get chewed apart), but they will still go through spawning behaviors when they are thriving... this means their territory increases dramatically. Rams tend to be wonderful parents, and with smaller fish in the tank... they could do real well in there for 6 months and then all of a sudden one day freak out on all of the other fish. Its best if you are prepared ahead of time, know to expect it. If you have enough other tanks around, can provide a qt tank in a hurry... like I said... I might work.

Considering we are talking about fish that come from various environments, can I ask what you pH, kh, and gh are at right now? Choosing fish for a tank isn't as easy as picking out something that looks good and just adding it in. You first must look and see what your tank will allow you to add...

Hope this has helped a bit. Oh, and btw.. if you keep that CAE in the tank to see what happens, and then add threadfins, you are sure to lose the threadfins soon enough. A CAE will target those before even guppys because of the long flowing fins and their small size.
 
#8 ·
Thanks a lot Dawn! I've had the gourami for about 8 months, and they were fully grown when I got them. They are fully sexually mature (blue throats and all) so I don't think their personalities are going to change too much more. Currently they are fine- I've never seen one nip at the other, just small chases, and their territories seem to be quite small (e.i. half a plant). Yes, the top, and whole thing, is going to be densely planted. There should be plenty of opportunity for the gourami and the threadfins to occupy their own territory (this tank is 6 feet long). I think I'm going to try to make it work, but again, I'll be ready to move the gourami if need be.

As for the ram, I'd definitely only be getting one. I really don't have any need for fry (if they were to survive), nor do I really care if they get more colorful when mating. I'd much prefer a less territorial fish. I'd like to get him as young as possible and raise him up- without being raised around females or competing males, wouldn't he be a less aggressive fish?

As for the CAE- he'll be moving out. I've got several extra 10G tanks, and as he is only a couple of inches, he'll be fine in there until I get a river tank setup.

Well, my pH is 7.6, as for gh and kh, I actually don't know. I'll be sure to find out this weekend, as soon as the snow allows! It seems that some fish keepers worry a lot about gh & kh, whereas others just leave it how their tank naturally is. I know that some fish are very sensitive to this, whereas other fish are much less picky. I tend to be of the opinion that water quality is much more important than these other elements, and look for fish that aren't too picky about them. I just read an article that Lupin linked to on some kuhlis who bred in completely different conditions than the wild. (http://www.loaches.com/articles/breeding-experience-with-pangio-oblonga)

I really do appreciate all the help, and am taking your suggestions seriously! I'm slowly working into the tank my current inhabitants, so I've got some time before I add more fish, and will certainly put a LOT of planning and research behind it. There's certainly no point in me keeping a bad mix of fish, it just means all of them will be unhappy, which makes them less interesting, less enjoyable fish.
 
#9 ·
okiemavis said:
As for the ram, I'd definitely only be getting one. I really don't have any need for fry (if they were to survive), nor do I really care if they get more colorful when mating. I'd much prefer a less territorial fish. I'd like to get him as young as possible and raise him up- without being raised around females or competing males, wouldn't he be a less aggressive fish?

Not necessarily... again you are dealing with personality as much as you are natural instincts. Rams, in general, have the ablility to be quite aggressive, whether alone, paired, or in groups. While I can see the chance of the gouramis and threadfins working out, even 1 ram in that kind of situation is pretty iffy. I am not just thinking about your other fish, but also of the ram. What kind of ram are we talking about?



Well, my pH is 7.6, as for gh and kh, I actually don't know. I'll be sure to find out this weekend, as soon as the snow allows! It seems that some fish keepers worry a lot about gh & kh, whereas others just leave it how their tank naturally is. I know that some fish are very sensitive to this, whereas other fish are much less picky. I tend to be of the opinion that water quality is much more important than these other elements, and look for fish that aren't too picky about them.
These other elements are a part of your water quality, and just as equally important as waste levels. Fish rely on the minerals in the water for their organs to function properly, and different fish need different levels of specific mineral content to be healthy. When we decide to "not worry about it", that's when things are most likely to get out of hand, and by the time we find it, it is often too late to save our fish. Hardness of the water will affect the central nervous system of the fish. Something like an African cichlid needs specific levels of mineral content for the body to function. If you were to try to move an African cichlid to something like a discus tank, the fish is going to be in major trouble. Likewise, moving a discus to an African tank. Fish compatibility would never get to be an issue because the environement would harm the fish beyond repair, and very quickly. It's very important to always know where your tank is at, and pH alone will not accurately tell you how hard or soft your water is. Shock from a rapid change in kh can do almost as much damage as that of a pH change. The other reason to test them all is to see where they balance. If one is off from where it should be, it can affect the others, and many other things going on in your water quality.
 
#10 ·
Thanks Dawn- I will test my gh and kh this weekend, and be sure to take that into consideration when I'm contemplating the stocking of my tank. The more I think and research, the more I'd like to do a biotope. Way to throw a wrench in things! But I'm starting to realize that my OCD will take over in the long run and that having different fish from different areas will drive me up the wall.

I sorta realized last night that I need to get rid of my guppies. They breed like crazy, and in a heavily planted tank, the fry are going to survive too well- which just means an overstocked tank until I can get rid of them. I already know the CAE has to go, so that just leaves me with the gourami and my cory.

The fish I am the most attached to is my cory, who's from the Amazon. I couldn't ever conceive of getting rid of him. I also just got back from Brazil...so it seems that fate is taking control here. This will take care of my kh and gh problem as well. I will make sure to keep it at a range typical in the Amazon, and my Amazonian fish will be happy!

Of course, there is no point in keeping unhappy fish, so I really am taking your suggestions to heart. I won't be adding any fish to my tank until I am certain that they will thrive.
 
#11 ·
A biotope sounds great... but for one consideration. Not all Amazonian fish are coming directly from the Amazon anymore, so the safest thing to do when adjusting/fixing water params, is to find out where the fish are coming from and what conditions they were bred/kept in before you bring them home.

Because we've already touched on the topic of angelfish, lets stick with that for an example. A wild angelfish (otherwise listed in the LFS's as "altum angels" generally are F0 - F1 generations, so are likely coming in as wild caught or are the first generation of fry from wild caught. Their bodies will be mostly adjusted to the Amazon conditions... very soft water. Now, standard angelfish (silver, white, solid black, marble, etc) are primarily coming from breeders, are way beyond 5th or 6th generation from the wilds. These fish are quite often bred and raised in water than is much harder than the Amazon environment. Not all fish can tolerate being acclimated to different conditions, and the bigger the difference, the harder it would be for them to try to adjust.

When setting up your biotope, a few things I'd like to ask you to think about long and hard before doing anything with your tank...
1. Can I create an Amazon "biotope" without harming the fish that are captive bred?
2. Can I set up my biotope to work with Amazonian animals, plants, etc.. without matching the water params of the Amazon River?
3. Is it possible for me to find out if the fish I want are wild caught or captive bred?

I have noticed there seems to be a lot of interest lately in creating biotope situations in home aquaria. There is nothing really wrong with this idea provided you understand the different considerations before getting started. I have seen many people limit themselves to very few animals in a very large tank simply because their conditions couldn't provide for captive bred animals, which in freshwater, is the majority of what is available in the LFS's now. It is entirely possible to set up an aquarium to simulate an Amazonian habitat without messing around with water chemistry. There are a lot of common plants from the Amazon that can also no longer handle the wild conditions... for the same reason. Evolution has everything to do with it, technology alongside of it. This is what our scientists and govt's consider to be progress... even if some of us don't agree.

Sorry for the lengthy posts, I just felt it was important for you to understand what you are dealing with here. There is another member working on creating a saltwater marsh, natural habitat... but is finding that the silt mixed in with the sand is also part of the habitat, and isn't something that can really be filtered out of the tank... and if/when it is, he no longer has a completely natural biotope, or a situation where those wild caught animals can survive long term.

The Amazon has a number of different biotopes. Before deciding what you wish to do, it's a good idea to get a feel for each different biotope. The Amazon River, for large part, is very muddy/silty. This natural habitat is going to wreak havoc on filtration units... but is needed if you really want the entire biotope situation.

I hope I am not discouraging you... I simply want to help see this go right for you. There are so many things to worry about when dealing with biotope situations the way I've heard it explained here and from a few books. (No, I would not suggest those books to anyone because it would take a true scientist to pull it off). There are ways to do this... its just very important to understand what works and what doesn't, and why.

If you need more help, suggestions, please... ask away.
 
#12 ·
My two cents--Do not change your water parameters, just deal with what comes out of the tap, otherwise you can have a major disaster. Rams will adjust well to water that is harder and with a higher pH, their life-spands have not been shown to be decreased and mine breed every couple of weeks or so in 7.5 pH water that is of moderate hardness. Most fish are like this, they will adapt to water conditions well as long as it is done gradually. As for the issue of rams being aggressive towards small/fancy fish, I don't see this being an issue. Rams stay on the bottom part of the tank, the most they will do is chase another fish out of their way, I have never seen mine resort to tail-nipping. They pay the absolute least amount of attention to fish that are small and quick, even if they are colorful. They simply couldn't care less about them. Think up a stock list of what you ideally would like in your tank and post it, including numbers. We can tell you if we see any major disasters imminent. Good luck!

PS--rams do like warmer water ~80 degrees, but this is not so warm that it will harm MOST other fish..also, honey gouramis are very peaceful fish
 
#13 ·
i also think doing a biotope tank would be a great idea! :D like scottysgirl said... post a list of what you would like in the tank and we can help you add to it, take away, fix, or whatever needs to be done. :wink: sorry if you already answered this question :wink: but... how big is your tank?
 
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