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Adding to a community tank

This is a discussion on Adding to a community tank within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Whats the point of asking, when you don't want to listen to what anyone says. They're trying to help not pick at you. The ...

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Adding to a community tank
Old 08-25-2011, 06:48 PM   #11
 
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Whats the point of asking, when you don't want to listen to what anyone says. They're trying to help not pick at you. The fish that u have together aren't compable.
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Old 08-25-2011, 07:47 PM   #12
 
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I agree with what others are saying, and there is plenty of scientific evidence to support it.

Let me ask a question: Would you keep a small horse in your bedroom? I'll assume your answer is "no," to which I could then say, "well, why not, he's happy, and alive and eating well." But the point is, that a bedroom is not suitable or adequate space for a horse. Science knows and tells us what a horse needs to be truly healthy, and science is also finding out more and more about fish species in the same way. The horse is not healthy in a bedroom, and fish that need more space are not healthy in too small an environment, or the wrong environment.

Some fish have long normal lifespans, 20-30 or more years. If it dies prematurely, it may likely be due to being forced to exist in unsuitable surroundings. No one can honestly say that any fish is OK in conditions that are other than those suggested for the species, unless that fish lives a full life to prove it. Most don't, but by that point it is too late to help the poor fish.

The information in the profiles respecting number of a species, minimum tank size, compatibility, etc. is not dreamed up, it is the consensus of very knowledgeable ichthyologists who have spent years and years studying fish species. Take their advice for the good of your fish. You would not (I hope) go to a doctor for advice and then ignore it. These ichthyologists are highly trained scientists as much as the doctor, or perhaps even more as they are specialized in their respective fields.

Last edited by Byron; 08-25-2011 at 07:55 PM..
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Old 08-26-2011, 02:23 AM   #13
 
Clown Loach - I have just two and they are doing very well, about 4 inches now.
Red Tail Shark - I have two of these who are also doing very well, no fighting or territorial disputes.

The rules of temperament and schooling is not set in stone, contray to what some might say. It's all relative to the individual fish. Personally, I would prefer not to have a fish that is so weak that it needs numbers to feel safe and secure. This varies from fish to fish, I have schooling fish who prefer to be on their own and I have non-schooling fish who will school with just about any fish. I also have territorial fish who are not so territorial. Observe the fish prior to making the purchase and see what their behavior is like.

I tend to go for the hardest of the group not necessarily the strongest or most aggressive. I also found that fish will adapt when put with a community, when put with peaceful fish, they become more peaceful. But again, depends on the the individual fish.

Don't waste your valuable aquarium space on 200 neon tetras just because someone else says they should be in schools. I would say 2 or 3 of any kind is a good number, even 1. It's true that fish like to have companionship, not all, but some, so adding friend is good benefit. I'll probably add another clown loach to make 3. They hang with my 3 tiger barbs who also do great with my red tail shark.
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Old 08-26-2011, 02:28 AM   #14
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquamania View Post
Clown Loach - I have just two and they are doing very well, about 4 inches now.
Red Tail Shark - I have two of these who are also doing very well, no fighting or territorial disputes.

The rules of temperament and schooling is not set in stone, contray to what some might say. It's all relative to the individual fish. Personally, I would prefer not to have a fish that is so weak that it needs numbers to feel safe and secure. This varies from fish to fish, I have schooling fish who prefer to be on their own and I have non-schooling fish who will school with just about any fish. I also have territorial fish who are not so territorial. Observe the fish prior to making the purchase and see what their behavior is like.

I tend to go for the hardest of the group not necessarily the strongest or most aggressive. I also found that fish will adapt when put with a community, when put with peaceful fish, they become more peaceful. But again, depends on the the individual fish.

Don't waste your valuable aquarium space on 200 neon tetras just because someone else says they should be in schools. I would say 2 or 3 of any kind is a good number, even 1. It's true that fish like to have companionship, not all, but some, so adding friend is good benefit. I'll probably add another clown loach to make 3. They hang with my 3 tiger barbs who also do great with my red tail shark.
Thats what im finding!! I have kept fish in this tank that just havnt worked.. so i changed.. the set up now its working! :)
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Old 08-26-2011, 02:33 AM   #15
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
I agree with what others are saying, and there is plenty of scientific evidence to support it.

Let me ask a question: Would you keep a small horse in your bedroom? I'll assume your answer is "no," to which I could then say, "well, why not, he's happy, and alive and eating well." But the point is, that a bedroom is not suitable or adequate space for a horse. Science knows and tells us what a horse needs to be truly healthy, and science is also finding out more and more about fish species in the same way. The horse is not healthy in a bedroom, and fish that need more space are not healthy in too small an environment, or the wrong environment.

Some fish have long normal lifespans, 20-30 or more years. If it dies prematurely, it may likely be due to being forced to exist in unsuitable surroundings. No one can honestly say that any fish is OK in conditions that are other than those suggested for the species, unless that fish lives a full life to prove it. Most don't, but by that point it is too late to help the poor fish.

The information in the profiles respecting number of a species, minimum tank size, compatibility, etc. is not dreamed up, it is the consensus of very knowledgeable ichthyologists who have spent years and years studying fish species. Take their advice for the good of your fish. You would not (I hope) go to a doctor for advice and then ignore it. These ichthyologists are highly trained scientists as much as the doctor, or perhaps even more as they are specialized in their respective fields.
You trying to tell me I have to sell my horse as well!?!?!?! She loves living in the spare room!!
:)
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Old 08-26-2011, 02:34 AM   #16
 
Would love if you guy checked out my tank and left some comments!!!

http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/m.../my-tank-2611/

Let me know what you think?
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Old 08-26-2011, 11:11 AM   #17
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquamania View Post
Clown Loach - I have just two and they are doing very well, about 4 inches now.
Red Tail Shark - I have two of these who are also doing very well, no fighting or territorial disputes.

The rules of temperament and schooling is not set in stone, contray to what some might say. It's all relative to the individual fish. Personally, I would prefer not to have a fish that is so weak that it needs numbers to feel safe and secure. This varies from fish to fish, I have schooling fish who prefer to be on their own and I have non-schooling fish who will school with just about any fish. I also have territorial fish who are not so territorial. Observe the fish prior to making the purchase and see what their behavior is like.

I tend to go for the hardest of the group not necessarily the strongest or most aggressive. I also found that fish will adapt when put with a community, when put with peaceful fish, they become more peaceful. But again, depends on the the individual fish.

Don't waste your valuable aquarium space on 200 neon tetras just because someone else says they should be in schools. I would say 2 or 3 of any kind is a good number, even 1. It's true that fish like to have companionship, not all, but some, so adding friend is good benefit. I'll probably add another clown loach to make 3. They hang with my 3 tiger barbs who also do great with my red tail shark.
There is some inaccurate information in this post which I cannot allow to go unchallenged. There is always the chance that an inexperienced beginner may accept this and start down the wrong road in the hobby. And the poor fish are always the real losers.

First, no freshwater fish are "schooling." That behaviour occurs in many marine fish. Freshwater fish that live in groups are termed shoaling, and that means something entirely different. They do not "school" but they need to know there are more of their species around them. They may well swim independently. But they do so because they have the ease of being in a group. There is a sense of safety in numbers; there are often social interactive behaviours within the group, from "play" to more serious levels of hierarchy. And they are not somehow "weaker" because of it. They simply have a need to be in large groups because that is how nature programmed them thousands if not millions of years ago. Neither you nor I will change this, unless we somehow re-create the species from scratch.

Scientific studies only this past year have proven what many of us have been saying for years, that shoaling fish kept in too small a group will be more prone to increased aggression and ill health because the immune system is weakened by the stress; the fish is more likely to contract disease and health issues that it would otherwise not have, and this frequently leads to premature death.

You can choose not to believe this if you like; science also tells us that the earth revolves around the sun, and the earth is not flat--yet many still accept both myths. That is your decision.

Certain fish species are territorial by nature. The fact that some fish show less inclination for this is quite true. But the majority do adhere to the "norm." This is seen in other animals, even humans; we have specific general characteristics that are the norm for the species, but there are individuals outside the norm. That does not alter the norm, nor does it mean we should ignore it and assume differently. When dealing with fish, this can be disastrous.

If I had the time I could dig back through threads and find many where an aquarist experimented as you suggest, and for a few months, sometimes less, it seemed to work; then the fish suddenly decides to kill off its tankmates. The point of knowing what is "normal" for the species and providing for it accordingly is to avoid such situations. This is the responsibility every aquarist has; it is irresponsible to ignore proven fact. To risk the health and life of the fish just to prove a point that is clearly erroneous makes no sense to any of us who care about our fish.
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