28" Lighting Fixture and 23" tubes - Page 3
Tropical Fish

Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources » Freshwater Fish and Aquariums » Beginner Freshwater Aquarium » 28" Lighting Fixture and 23" tubes

28" Lighting Fixture and 23" tubes

This is a discussion on 28" Lighting Fixture and 23" tubes within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> P.S. for Byron and MeanHarri..... I looked the watt per gallon up and it says 3 wpg. That is what she said. I am ...

Check out these freshwater fish profiles
Twig Catfish
Twig Catfish
Celestial Pearl Danio
Celestial Pearl Danio
Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools vBmenu Seperating Image Search this Thread vBmenu Seperating Image
28" Lighting Fixture and 23" tubes
Old 01-23-2010, 09:45 PM   #21
 
HollyinWA's Avatar
 
P.S. for Byron and MeanHarri.....

I looked the watt per gallon up and it says 3 wpg. That is what she said. I am interested in Byron's point of view on this.

Here is an ariticle that I found that looks like what Byron was trying to explain to me....about it not always being the wattage straight forward but depends on the type of light. The thing is, I am not sure if I can find two bulbs that would give me enough even if the wattage is lower or even if I add the original fixture on there as well which I really don't want to do, unless I find it ok. I wonder if the fish like this much light. ??

If based on wattage it would have to be around 160 or 168 since my tank is 56 gallon. My tank is a deeper tank too so that does not help.
HollyinWA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2010, 10:01 PM   #22
 
Mean Harri's Avatar
 
If you put that much wattage over it you're going to have to use co2. Lighting can be a pain. You have 56 gallons but it's not as wide but deeper and higher tank. What might work well is a 2x36 watt kit from ahsupply.com

Their kits can be installed in a canopy or retro fitted in an older fixture. I've read all over the place the guy there, Kim I believe is his name, is real easy to talk to. Call and tell him what you're looking for and he can guide you. The prices for their kits is real reasonable. 2x36 watt placed beside each other but offset to cover the full 30" tank width since the kits are only 17" I believe would would. Make sense?
Mean Harri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2010, 10:10 PM   #23
 
HollyinWA's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Harri View Post
If you put that much wattage over it you're going to have to use co2. Lighting can be a pain. You have 56 gallons but it's not as wide but deeper and higher tank. What might work well is a 2x36 watt kit from ahsupply.com

Their kits can be installed in a canopy or retro fitted in an older fixture. I've read all over the place the guy there, Kim I believe is his name, is real easy to talk to. Call and tell him what you're looking for and he can guide you. The prices for their kits is real reasonable. 2x36 watt placed beside each other but offset to cover the full 30" tank width since the kits are only 17" I believe would would. Make sense?
Thanks. Yes, that made sense. The problem is, what a darn hassle and expense to have to send this new one back. At first I was not going to do plants because of what I was told I would have to have and then I had hope on here that it can be done for way less the cost because I did not need such a high tech lighting situation to grow plants as I was told locally here in the store.

I will check out Kim's site. I checked the other one out but it would be the same as what I just bought.....thirty inch fixture for two tubes. I have to find the right tubes though.

Thanks again.

P.S. Why does it require C02 with more wattage...is it because of the high plant growth which would take up more C02 that is in there with average lighting?
HollyinWA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2010, 10:37 PM   #24
 
Mean Harri's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HollyinWA View Post
Thanks. Yes, that made sense. The problem is, what a darn hassle and expense to have to send this new one back. At first I was not going to do plants because of what I was told I would have to have and then I had hope on here that it can be done for way less the cost because I did not need such a high tech lighting situation to grow plants as I was told locally here in the store.

I will check out Kim's site. I checked the other one out but it would be the same as what I just bought.....thirty inch fixture for two tubes. I have to find the right tubes though.

Thanks again.

P.S. Why does it require C02 with more wattage...is it because of the high plant growth which would take up more C02 that is in there with average lighting?
Exactly. High light such as T5 high output gives is very intense. The plants will want to grow and grow and have to be fed the co2 and fertilizers. Kind of like putting a lot of air to a fire. If you dont keep adding wood all that air won't make a difference after a short time and the fire goes out.
Mean Harri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2010, 12:52 PM   #25
 
Byron's Avatar
 
I agree with what Harri has been posting. On the light/CO2 issue, I explain it in Part 4 of my stickies on the Aquarium Plant section. To summarize, plants need light and nutrients in proportion, and will grow (by photosynthesis) so long as these are adequate and balanced. If any one is lacking/missing, it stops the plant from growing further; this is called the limiting factor. Light should always be the limiting factor, that is, you want adequate nutrients (carbon, nitrogen, minerals) for the amount of light. So the more light, the more nutrients; if not, plants can't use the light if there is insufficient carbon (CO2) and algae will.

The fixture you now have (new) will work with good tubes. I would suggest Nutrafin's Life-Glo full spectrum 6700K for both. The Life-Glo puts out more intense light than the Life-Glo 2 or any other tube that I have so far seen, due to a special coating on one half of the tube that reflects the light out the other side, so more light is directed or focused out one side than with other tubes that direct light out all around. If there is a good reflector (shiny, not white) inside this fixture, that will further focus the light. I belive this will work. The Life-Glo tubes are more expensive than others. They are T8 in diameter. You can probably find them on Drs Foster&Smith, the AquariumGuys, etc., and see the prices.

Another option would be to return the fixture for either a longer one (consider how this will look), or a T5 fixture. T5 fixtures only take T5 tubes, and these come in regular and HO. These tubes are not cheap, I believe they are more than the Life-Glo (at least the 48-inch tubes are in Canada).

Last comment as you asked on the 3 watts per gallon. This is rubbish. I do not know why some fairly reputable plant authors are still advocating 2-3 watts per gallon minimum without CO2, and more with CO2. I have never had more than 1 watt per gallon over any of my tanks, and I have less than that over my 115g (80 watts total) and 90g (80 watts total), and look at the plant growth--and I have thick floating plants that shade the tank. I can't say more, it is so obvious; these people are simply mis-informed. And I know the tank depth being greater is an issue, but intensity is not equal to watts when we get into these special areas.

Byron.

Last edited by Byron; 01-24-2010 at 12:54 PM..
Byron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2010, 10:07 PM   #26
 
HollyinWA's Avatar
 
Thanks so much, Byron, for the info and encouragement. It all made sense to me. I can't get anything longer then a 30" fixture because if I do it will hang over the edges and that won't look good. I will see how it goes with the right tubes and if it is not enough I can put the other fixture behind it as well.

I have a question regarding plants and C02 and 02. I have read that during light hours plants give off 02 but during the night hours it can take it away. How do fish do ok in tanks at night if this is the case? Is it the air flow that we give the tank that helps with this. I know that many that have lives plants though usually have very little water movement and air stones, etc.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Byron View Post
I agree with what Harri has been posting. On the light/CO2 issue, I explain it in Part 4 of my stickies on the Aquarium Plant section. To summarize, plants need light and nutrients in proportion, and will grow (by photosynthesis) so long as these are adequate and balanced. If any one is lacking/missing, it stops the plant from growing further; this is called the limiting factor. Light should always be the limiting factor, that is, you want adequate nutrients (carbon, nitrogen, minerals) for the amount of light. So the more light, the more nutrients; if not, plants can't use the light if there is insufficient carbon (CO2) and algae will.

The fixture you now have (new) will work with good tubes. I would suggest Nutrafin's Life-Glo full spectrum 6700K for both. The Life-Glo puts out more intense light than the Life-Glo 2 or any other tube that I have so far seen, due to a special coating on one half of the tube that reflects the light out the other side, so more light is directed or focused out one side than with other tubes that direct light out all around. If there is a good reflector (shiny, not white) inside this fixture, that will further focus the light. I belive this will work. The Life-Glo tubes are more expensive than others. They are T8 in diameter. You can probably find them on Drs Foster&Smith, the AquariumGuys, etc., and see the prices.

Another option would be to return the fixture for either a longer one (consider how this will look), or a T5 fixture. T5 fixtures only take T5 tubes, and these come in regular and HO. These tubes are not cheap, I believe they are more than the Life-Glo (at least the 48-inch tubes are in Canada).

Last comment as you asked on the 3 watts per gallon. This is rubbish. I do not know why some fairly reputable plant authors are still advocating 2-3 watts per gallon minimum without CO2, and more with CO2. I have never had more than 1 watt per gallon over any of my tanks, and I have less than that over my 115g (80 watts total) and 90g (80 watts total), and look at the plant growth--and I have thick floating plants that shade the tank. I can't say more, it is so obvious; these people are simply mis-informed. And I know the tank depth being greater is an issue, but intensity is not equal to watts when we get into these special areas.

Byron.
HollyinWA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2010, 10:18 PM   #27
 
Mean Harri's Avatar
 
At night (lights out) the plants stop giving off o2 and use o2. In a tank that uses pressurized co2 most people shut the co2 off at night. I've read some that don't but I think most do. While this use by the plants of the o2 at night may reduce o2 levels for the fish it may or may not depending on the number of fish in the tank. Some people have an air pump on a timer to add air to the tank over night. Some don't have to do anything. While others may turn the spray bar on their canister filter to create increased surface disturbance at night. That can become a pain though having to adjust it both in the am and again in the pm. It's all dependent on each set up. I can not personally attest to what you may have to do or not. But if you wake up in the morning and the fish are at the top sucking air then you'll know the o2 is depleting over night. I can't imagine it being a problem unless the tank is heavily stocked with fish. But that's just a guesstimate
Mean Harri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2010, 10:28 PM   #28
 
HollyinWA's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mean Harri View Post
At night (lights out) the plants stop giving off o2 and use o2. In a tank that uses pressurized co2 most people shut the co2 off at night. I've read some that don't but I think most do. While this use by the plants of the o2 at night may reduce o2 levels for the fish it may or may not depending on the number of fish in the tank. Some people have an air pump on a timer to add air to the tank over night. Some don't have to do anything. While others may turn the spray bar on their canister filter to create increased surface disturbance at night. That can become a pain though having to adjust it both in the am and again in the pm. It's all dependent on each set up. I can not personally attest to what you may have to do or not. But if you wake up in the morning and the fish are at the top sucking air then you'll know the o2 is depleting over night. I can't imagine it being a problem unless the tank is heavily stocked with fish. But that's just a guesstimate

Thanks a bunch! That pretty much confirms what I figured. I will see how it goes. One reason why I did not think I would be one to do lots of live plants is I tend to like some surface movement and I like air bubbles....not overkill but some. I guess that is just what I am used to. Sometimes when l look at planted tanks in stores, they can appear too still or something to me. Hard to explain what I mean. This is going to be a whole new world for me. If it does not work out, I don't have to continue with it, but I am sure it is wise to remove them slowly.
HollyinWA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 10:51 AM   #29
 
HollyinWA's Avatar
 
Well, I put my new fixture on the tank this morning. I hate when things are not the right size. The 30" fixture has to slightly sit on the frame, and I mean slightly. Because of this it cannot sit flush on the glass which causes a slight gap between the fixture and the glass. Actually, since I am trying to leave the other fixture on there as well, behind the new fixture, it is slightly on top of the plastic connecter that connects the back glass to the glass lid that you lift up. I believe the first tube is still setting behind the plastic and not getting blocked by the black plastic. It is hard to tell. Anyway, since there is this slight gap you can see the glare of the bright light. It is a little annoying. Byron, you said that you have a tank, or had one, that had a fixture that had to set on the frame a bit. Did this glaring light bug you at all? I am not usually sensitive to light but for some reason it is annoying. If I keep the other fixture behind it which causes the new one to hover over that plastic connector, it is also a pain when you go to lift the lid. When you lift it, it pushes the lights back, and then I have to reposition them because I don't want the back one to sit over the gap that does not have glass in the back.....the part where all the tubes and things go. I have the plastic thing that I just set on top of that part but I have not cut out the sections yet and actually slide it on the glass. I may be moving some of the equipment around so wanted to wait on that. I usually just have it loose and set in there -- wedge it over the stuff. Even if I had it attached, I don't like the fact that I have to reposition the lights everytime I open up the lid.

I am not sure if one fixture is going to be enough since I can only have 24 inch tubes. Maybe it can be alright for right now with just the new fixture on there even though I hate that glare, and then maybe I can find a thinner fixture to set behind it. I tried to put the smaller (less wide one) in the front so the front one would be flush with the glass, but then I ran into another problem....the smaller original fixture has a bigger button so if it is in front the bigger fixture has to set further back which then hovers over that part that does not have glass.

I will say one thing, having the two extra light sure makes a difference in the brightness of the tank. Even if I just had the two lights, it looks a lot better than the one light I had, especially since this tank is deep. I don't even have the right kind of lights yet.

Last edited by HollyinWA; 01-25-2010 at 10:55 AM..
HollyinWA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2010, 03:05 PM   #30
 
Byron's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HollyinWA View Post
Thanks a bunch! That pretty much confirms what I figured. I will see how it goes. One reason why I did not think I would be one to do lots of live plants is I tend to like some surface movement and I like air bubbles....not overkill but some. I guess that is just what I am used to. Sometimes when l look at planted tanks in stores, they can appear too still or something to me. Hard to explain what I mean. This is going to be a whole new world for me. If it does not work out, I don't have to continue with it, but I am sure it is wise to remove them slowly.
I concur with Harri's comments on this issue, but would like to add from my experience, and then provide some advice on your surface disturbance and bubbles.

I have fairly heavily-stocked tanks; my 115g has more than 130 fish in it, relatively small fish but still a lot of them. I have never observed any oxygen shortages via the fish behaviour. But as a matter of fact, there is more oxygen depletion by bacteria than fish in most aquaria. And, plants produce a large amount of oxygen during photosynthesis, some authors remarking it is more than the fish and plants can use at night. Plus the fish are resting, not swimming actively using more oxygen than at rest [except of course for my woodcats]. I think if one were dosing with CO2 during the day one would be well advised to turn it off at night; first it is useless, plants do not use it during darkness and pumping it into the water is not going to improve photosynthesis the next day, plus fish will be overwhelmed by CO2 and that means trouble and even death. Also adding an airstone or engaging surface disturbance during darkness might be necessary with added CO2, again depending somewhat on fish and plant load, always remembering that bacteria fact.

Now on the bubbles, don't. This will drive out precious CO2 very quickly. I have details of this with the scientific data in Part 3 (Filtration) of my stick series, please check that so you know where I'm coming from. This is important, for the fish and the plants, both with respect to CO2 and oxygen excess which is detrimental to plants as I explain in the sticky. As for the surface disturbance, it should be minimal. I have some movement in all three planted tanks, but it is not churning or bubbling, just a few small wavelets (if that is a word). This helps to prevent protein scum which while not particularly harmful to the fish is unsightly. I used to use the surface skimmer attachments on my Eheim canisters, they just pull the surface water in with no disturbance at all really, and were ideal for this, but they also grab the small fish and fry, so I've removed them.

Byron.
Byron is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
what size is 48" wide, 19" deep and 23" tall redlessi Freshwater Aquarium Equipment 3 10-13-2009 09:51 PM
Modifying The flourecent fixture Compact 55 Watt 21" ShawnMcc Freshwater Aquarium Equipment 1 04-26-2007 10:50 PM
"Meat" coral - how long to "open"? Mike Coral and Reef Creatures 4 04-02-2007 12:03 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:56 PM.