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150g South American rainforest

This is a discussion on 150g South American rainforest within the Beginner Freshwater Aquarium forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> The reason is that the discus' temperature requirements limit the varieties of tetras I can consider, although the adult size of the 5-6 discus, ...

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150g South American rainforest
Old 06-03-2012, 10:02 AM   #31
 
The reason is that the discus' temperature requirements limit the varieties of tetras I can consider, although the adult size of the 5-6 discus, compared to the same number of dwarf cichlids would have to be considered - and that would affect the number. The more I read about the lovely discus also makes me wonder if I have the aquarium-keeping skills to meet their requirements (Mary Ellen Sweeney in The Cichlid Room Companion, said "Many experienced fishkeepers think of discus and groan that they are impossible to keep, make impossible demands and ultimately are simply not worth the effort"). So, I guess I could select discus and use temperature to limit the varieties of tetra or angelfish and limit the varieties based upon size (eliminating any under two inches). Or simply go with dwarf cichlids and have fewer, if any, limitations. Depending upon the number in each school (12-18 or various) , six or seven - hatchetfish; pencilfish; discus, angelfish or dwarf cichlids; and four different tetras based upon contrasting colors, i.e, cardinals, lemons, blue king, green fire, and/or black neon.
Of course, I'm still waiting for evaluations of the chart, which I used to determine compatibility for my selections.
Hope that answers your question?????
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Old 06-03-2012, 10:11 AM   #32
 
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Originally Posted by lesandjill View Post
The reason is that the discus' temperature requirements limit the varieties of tetras I can consider, although the adult size of the 5-6 discus, compared to the same number of dwarf cichlids would have to be considered - and that would affect the number. The more I read about the lovely discus also makes me wonder if I have the aquarium-keeping skills to meet their requirements (Mary Ellen Sweeney in The Cichlid Room Companion, said "Many experienced fishkeepers think of discus and groan that they are impossible to keep, make impossible demands and ultimately are simply not worth the effort"). So, I guess I could select discus and use temperature to limit the varieties of tetra or angelfish and limit the varieties based upon size (eliminating any under two inches). Or simply go with dwarf cichlids and have fewer, if any, limitations. Depending upon the number in each school (12-18 or various) , six or seven - hatchetfish; pencilfish; discus, angelfish or dwarf cichlids; and four different tetras based upon contrasting colors, i.e, cardinals, lemons, blue king, green fire, and/or black neon.
Of course, I'm still waiting for evaluations of the chart, which I used to determine compatibility for my selections.
Hope that answers your question?????
I want to note that her statement is mainly for wild caught discus. Captive bred ones are much easier to keep. Also dwarf cichlids in the amazon are almost half the size to an inch smaller than the discus cichlid. What about angels?
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Old 06-03-2012, 10:29 AM   #33
 
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Discus are not the easiest fish to keep. They are beautiful and absolutely my favorite Fish in the Amazon. Their colors are vibrant and they are very peaceful. I am only suggesting it to you as this would be my dream tank. I will also make a second more practical stocking recommendation for you:



With that information I would do this:

15 Discus
35 Cardinal Tetra
20 Sterbai Corydoras
20 Diamond Tetra

All these fish are compatible in their temperament, water parameters and beauty. Let me know what you think. You could lower the number of Cardinals to 25 and discus to 11 or 12 to minimize the bio load but I think that would be a beautiful tank.
I agree, My sister has a 200 gallon tank with now 5 discus 30 cardinal tetra and 8 clown loaches and 1 albino pleco she started out with 18 discus but they kep picking on the weak one untill she had 5 which she has had for quite some time its a beautiful tank she lives in the city and her water is good for discus I myself have very hard water and my parameters would not be good for Discu,s but if you can I think you would be very happy
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Old 06-03-2012, 11:31 AM   #34
 
Once again, my focus of interest is primarily to have several schools of tetras of at least 12 or more, its not keeping discus. Which variety of tank bred discus are you familiar with? There is no way that I would consider 15 discus. I have my doubts about trying even five or six. As for angelfish, I know they are more predatory. Would five or six small angels with the four-six varieties of tetras be alright if I was to limit the size of the various tetra species to two inches or more? Again, I thought of the discus or angels as a centerpiece species to compliment my smaller tetras; but not to dominate the tank. I'm actually more interested in having my list critiqued as to why it would or would not work. Are you suggesting that I have too many fish? I've seen lists on other sites where the number of fish in a similar biotope was larger. I'm more interested in opinons on my selection of fish and why it will or will not work.
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Old 06-03-2012, 11:42 AM   #35
 
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The range for GH, pH and temp is stated in the profile info, so I'm still not following this. Sometimes it may be a specific range, example pH 6 to 7.5, whereas other times it may be something like pH < 7 which means any pH below 7, and so forth. Same applies to GH, e.g., hardness < 8 dGH means any GH below 8 dGH will work. Temp always has specific numbers.

The above is the first issue to consider. Then there are environmental factors like water flow. Most of the fish are forest fish so this is straightforward; minimal water movement from the filter will suit all species. Light will be minimal, sufficient for the plants, and floating plants will ensure the overhead brightness is restricted. And all these fish like wood, and plants for cover. So that brings us to temperament/behaviour. If you intend sedate fish like discus or angelfish [and never both together as previously noted], you must ensure that their tankmates are quiet fish and not active swimmers that can stress them out with their continual charging around the tank.

On the discus, it is true that this fish is more of a challenge. In my 20+ years I have still not taken this plunge. Primarily because I would need to alter one of my existing larger tanks to accommodate their specific temperature, and this significantly limits tankmates. My 5-foot 115g Amazon riverscape would be ideal for discus, but this tank contains my 30+ corys and they would have to go due to the high temperature. I've no where else to put them, at present; I have a Flourite substrate in the 70g flooded Amazon forest tank, and I've already had to move corys out of there due to the substrate. But that may be changing fairly soon, to playsand, which would remove one obstacle.

On temp, it is always best to stay in the mid-range of a species. The warmer the water, the higher the fish's metabolic rate will be, and several internal physiological processes are affected. And only a degree or two can make a vast difference to the fish in this respect.

Byron.
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:23 PM   #36
 
Byron. Did you have an opportunity to look at the chart? Is the data accurate? If not, would you kindly "tweek" it? Now that I posted it, can you provide the suggestions and recommendations you were offering? I'm anxious to get your expert input on both topics.
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:33 PM   #37
 
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my focus of interest is primarily to have several schools of tetras of at least 12 or more

Since this is the case, I would forget either discus or angels, both would limit your choices for the reasons you mentioned.


You could always add interest and variety with small plecos like Ancistrus dolichopterus or the common bristlenose and maybe farlowella or whiptail catfish, a single bolivian ram could be added as well.


To help narrow your choices for tetra first choose one of several similar species on your list and eliminate the others. For example: roberts, rosy, red phantom, black phantom, and to some extent bleeding hearts; another group would be cardinals, neons, and green neons, I personally wouldn't have neons due to health issues as well as their needing somewhat cooler temps. Also, keep in mind that the emperor tetras (both species) can be quite boisterous and choosing them will, to some extent limit your choice for tankmates. Same for the very active cochus.
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Old 06-03-2012, 02:08 PM   #38
 
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Originally Posted by lesandjill View Post
Byron. Did you have an opportunity to look at the chart? Is the data accurate? If not, would you kindly "tweek" it? Now that I posted it, can you provide the suggestions and recommendations you were offering? I'm anxious to get your expert input on both topics.
I can't keep numbers for every species in my head, so I will have to check each one. But I can offer some comments on the species, below.

green tetra (Aphyocharax rathbuni) 72 - 80F 6.5 - 7.8 7 - 20
This is not a particularly good community fish as it is a fin nipper. All the species in the genus Aphyocharax are, so not good with any slow or sedate fish, which limits their use. Best on their own, or in a tank with similar feisty companions.
blue tetra (Boehlkea fredcochui) 72 - 82F 5.6 - 7.6 1 - 15
This is another active fish, though less inclined to nip, but be careful. I had it once, got rid of it.
rummy nose tetra (Hemmigrammus bleheri) 75 - 85F 6.0 - 8.0 2 - 12
A true beauty, but must have quite soft acidic water; good with discus and the rams, not angelfish. Large group is necessary, I have 23 in my 115g. They are swimmers, but not rambunctious, remaining in the lower third of the tank, continually swimming back and forth in a fairly tight group. Very peaceful.
Glowlight Tetra (Hemmigrammus erthrozonus) 75 - 82.5 6.0 - 8.0 5 - 12
Not a problem, but not with angelfish.
Pretty Tetra (Hemmigrammus pulcher) 72 - 78 5.0 - 8.0 1 - 12
One of my favourites. As the profile says, somewhat active, but not too much for almost any community. Remains mid-water or slightly above.
blue king tetra (Impaichthys kerri) 76 - 80 5.5 - 7.0 1 - 12
A better community fish than the quite similar Emperor, as this one is less feisty. Active, but not overly-so, but not something I'd put with angelfish.
ornate tetra (Hyphessobrycon bentosi) 75 - 82 5.5 - 7.0 2 - 10
This is a real gem. Very quiet, mine (9) remain under large sword leaves, rarely swim, do not like water currents nor light. But a beauty, well suited to discus and angelfish. The naming of this species and the closely-related Rosy T is often confused so make sure it is this one, usually comonly called Robert's Tetra, as explained in the profile which also tells how to distinguish the two species as they frequently appear under the incorrect names.
Copland's tetra (Hyphessobrycon copelandi) 75 - 82 4.5 - 5.5 0 - 4
I've never seen this species, except in articles. Appearance is very similar to the above and the Rosy, but some sources say it is more active. ??
Bleeding Heart Tetra (Hyph. erythrostigma) 72 - 77 6.0 - 6.5 4 - 8
Another near-identical to the Roberts, Rosy. Except this species gets much larger, twice the size at 3+ inches. Said to be good with angelfish, but one of our members found it nipped the angel's fins.
Black Neon Tetra (Hyph. herbertaxelrodi) 73 - 81 5.5 - 7.5 4 - 8
Nothing bad to say here.
Black Phantom Tetra (Hyph. megalopterus) 72 - 82 6.0 - 7.5 2 - 20
Another beauty, if plain in colour, but the constant displays of the males is delightful. A good mix with the other Rosy clade tetras like Roberts, Rosy, etc. Similarly very quiet, likes staying under plants, out of the light.
Rosy Tetra (Hyphessobrycon rosaceus) 75 - 82 6.0 - 7.5 5 - 19
Another gem in the Rosy clade.
yellow phantom tetra (Hyph. rosecus) 74 - 80 5.5 - 7.5 1 - 20
This species [epithet is roseus] I have not personally come across, but it is much the same in needs and behaviours as the Rosy clade species above. Not ideal with angels or discus.
lesser Bleeding Heart Tetra (Hyph. socolofi) 72 - 77 6.0 - 7.2 1 - 10
This is the smallest of the three "Bleeding Heart" species, but otherwise much the same.
Red Phantom Tetra (Hyphessobrycon sweglesi) 68 - 77 5.5 - 7.5 4 - 20
This needs cool water; it would be lovely in a tank with neon tetra, the "Dwarf" species of cory, etc.
Cardinal Tetra (Paracheirodon axelrodi) 73 - 81 4.0 - 6.0 0 - 10
Another beauty. But very soft and very acidic. Good with discus, not angels. Nice with rummys as they share identical habitats.
red-eye Emperor Tetra (Nematobrycon lacortei) 73 - 80 5.6 - 7.2 1 - 12
I finally got hold of some of these, and they were a problem in 3 different tanks so I got rid of them. Prolific spawners, I now have 12 fry that have grown up in the tank in which I last had the parents, and so far, after several months, they are not as bothersome. However, this tank is fairly active, with Congo Tetra and Black Ruby Barb, so this may be it. In with my quieter characins they were something of a terror.
Emperor Tetra (Nematobrycon palmeri) 72 - 77 5.0 - 7.5 5 - 12
These seem better behaved than the above, I had/have both together, but still very active and not best with sedate fish.
Neon Tetra (Paracheirodon innesi) 68 - 80 5.0 - 7.0 1 - 10
Needs cooler temps than some of what you're considering.
Green Neon Tetra (Paracheirodon simulans) 73 - 80 4.0 - 6.5 0 - 8
A very delicate fish. I have had several protozoan/pathogen issues with these beauties. They are very closely related to the cardinal, need very soft and acidic water. In one sense the lovliest of the three [available] Paracheirodon species as the "neon" line is perfectly straight and extends to the caudal peduncle unlike the other two.
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