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1 Month in and already fed up with ph and algea probs

6K views 33 replies 5 participants last post by  Angel079 
#1 ·
Hi, I'm a newbie when it comes to keeping a tropical aquarium so any advice would be gratefully appreciated as I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle to the 2 problems below. I bought a 110 ltr tank a month ago, heater, filter, lights etc came with it as a package. I did what I should and cleaned everything, filled the tank adding in bioactive tapsafe and filter start and left it a week before buying fish. I bought a mexican walking fish, and 4 tiger barbs - the tiger barbs died one after the other the next day. At first they seemed happy and were darting round the tank in a group, the next day they were all at the surface no longer in a group trying to get air (or thats how it looked anyway). I then re-read my filter leaflet and established that the top of the filter needed to be out the water in order to feed oxygen into the tank so I corrected this immediatley but it was too late for the tiger barbs as this didn't seem to make any difference.
Problem 1 - I then decided to invest in a water test kit before getting any more fish (which I now know I should have done at the start), one of those liquid 5 test thingys, anyway I established the ph level of my water was way off chart - a really dark purple. The results of the other tests were all fine as the tank was only a few weeks old by this point. I assumed that it must have been a combination of the ph and lack of oxygen that killed off the tiger barbs so my next step was to find ways of decreasing my ph level. I tested the water out my tap and this was also a very high ph (slightly lighter purple but not much) - I live in a very old listed building so maybe this has something to do with the pipework in the building increasing the ph before coming out the tap(?) After weeks of searching for answers I decided to go for some peat moss to go in my filter which should hopefully bring the ph level down (haven't got this yet, waiting for delivery). I guess only time will tell for this method, I really don't want to add more chemicals to the water ph as I've heard lots about them doing more harm than good.
Problem 2 - in the 3rd week of setup (my mexican walking fish is still doing fine oddly) I noticed a brown staining appearing on everything within the tank, gravel, filter, heater, ornaments, flowers (plastic) and the longer it was left, the worse it got. I figured I'd clean it, took the ornaments out and 90% of the water, cleaned everything from top to bottom filled with water again and tapsafe etc and after a few days it's back again. After a week it looked so bad I had to clean it again! 90% of the water, gravel, literally everything got a thorough cleaning. This was last tuesday, and again within a few days the brown algea was appearing again...6 days later it looks like I haven't cleaned it for years!!!
It looks like another thorough cleaning session and 90% water change but I'm wondering if I'm doing more harm than good? I know I should only be cleaning 10 - 15% of the water every week but it gets so dirty in there thats why I chose to do 90%. I can't keep on doing this every week and I have read it does go away eventually but how long is eventually??? I'm only a month into having this tank and already I'm getting fed up with it, I guess all I want is for someone to tell me what I'm doing wrong and how to fix it? My mexican walking fish ("Buster" my daughter has named it lol) is still doing really well but I want to add fish to the tank too but at the moment this isn't looking possible. Help
 
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#2 ·
ok 1st thing .. welcome to the forum and believe me you will get a lot of help here!!! :) next stop cleaning everything LOL you need to let the bacteria grow in there to be able to handle the bio load.... search the threads regarding the Nitrogen cycle (cycling) and start there.. to be honest a month is really just the begining... this takes time and often a few failures before you get it right... dont add any more fish right yet as you have one in and are starting the tank up they will most likely also perish..... eventually could be a few days or a few months but let it go for now i know it does not look pretty at the moment but this will pass..... at the top of this section is a sticky thread that asks a lot of questions try to answer as many as you can and post here so when every one looks they dont have to wait so long to get your answers.. all oof the information will be helpful .... some of the best answers are going to come from Byron, Bettababby, and Lupin... not saying any one elses advice and tips are less valid in any way every one is extreamly knowladgeable but these three are tank starting wizards!!!!!! LOL
 
#3 ·
Hello & Welcome to the forum.
Please test all your parameters and post them (ph, KH, NO2, NO3 Ammonia)
There's several factors that enhance brown algae growth which need to be either eliminated or excluded from the 'cause list' step by step for your tank.
One cause could be higher nitrates.
Another cause can be low light. Now this does not simply mean to dial up the lighting durance, but possibly exchange for better bulbs - So what type of bulbs do you have (full spectrum?).
It often occurs in new tanks due to lack of oxygen and abundance of nutrients.
Do you have any live plants in the tank?

Brown algae or any other type for this matter is manly caused by an ecosystem within he tank that's out of level, meaning something is too high and other levels are too low. To permanently eliminate your issue, the cause must be found and eliminated.

Hate to tell you, but to solve it we'll have to go through several different matters in your tank and eliminate 1 by 1 and this may take time and patience.

And yes, absolutely agree to not mess with any additional chemicals in the starting phase of your tank right now. Its unstable system as it is, with further chemicals you'd just cause it to become more unstable. The only things you should be using is water conditioner for your weekly water changes.
The 90% changes you are doing are simply too much. The only time you should be doing such large changes is if either your Ammonia rises past 0 or your Nitrates rise.

Peat will only soften your water so much and over long time peat also looses this ability to soften your water further (pretty much the harder the water the quicker you'll need to replace peat). An alternative to this, since you have a fairly small tank is to establish exactly what your parameters are at the moment and use R/O water from the store and mix it in the same ratio every water exchange to maintain a set pH and hardness. That said, it is crucial to the fish health (the one you have and the one's you'll eventually get) to not have any variations in pH too sudden, a quick rise or drop in pH will not be tolerated by the fish.
Therefore it is easiest to test your water, see what you have and buy fish that will thrive in your water as it is, that will make for happy & healthy fish and a hassle free maintenance for you.
Also tell us what kind of decor and gravel you're using in this tank. Rock's collected from the outdoors often give of hardness as well, not adding these to your tank will eliminate a rise in hardness (and so with pH rise) right there.
 
#4 · (Edited)
It looks like another thorough cleaning session and 90% water change but I'm wondering if I'm doing more harm than good? I know I should only be cleaning 10 - 15% of the water every week but it gets so dirty in there thats why I chose to do 90%. I can't keep on doing this every week and I have read it does go away eventually but how long is eventually??? I'm only a month into having this tank and already I'm getting fed up with it, I guess all I want is for someone to tell me what I'm doing wrong and how to fix it? My mexican walking fish ("Buster" my daughter has named it lol) is still doing really well but I want to add fish to the tank too but at the moment this isn't looking possible. Help
90% water change will stress the fish, 10-25% will be good.

if you're 1 month in, try not putting fish in yet.
Your tank will definitely need to be established with new bacteria.

Here's what I did with my freshwater tank + some tips to not crash the tank.

1. Once you've filled your tank with everything but fish, make sure the water is dechlorinated. If it has not been, add water conditioner to dechlorinate the tank (dosage depending on product) and then let it run for 48 hours.

2. Start adding ammonia to the tank and add some beneficial bacteria. 1 way is to get some gravel from an established tank and seed it in your tank -- or what you can do then is add cycle.

2a. Make sure when you add ammonia you're doing test readings (buy an API freshwater master kit) in the tank because you're feeding the beneficial bacteria.

3. Watch your water go through a bacteria bloom, and die off (cloudy white water)

4. At the end of the cycle you should read 0 pp ammonia, 0pp nitrites, <20pp nitrates

5. Once this has hit, do a 25-30% water change - then you should be able to add 1-2 fish (depending on the size of the tank)
5a. give it a week or so and add another, and water change weekly to bi-weekly IMO is the best.
5.b when you have a stocked tank, gravel vacuum a lot when you change water, I made the mistake of doing light vacuuming and got hydrogen chloride in the tank and it crashed.

There's a usual time frame of 4-8 weeks, but it'll depend on the setup.
 
#5 ·
I'd not recommend spiking it with Ammonia at this stage as he already has a fish in the tank, going this route now would very likely kill the fish, this approach should be taken when dealing with a fishless cycle.
Also when cycling a tank and undergoing a N-Peak it CAN cause cloudy water with the bacteria bloom, but does not HAVE TO. I had tanks set up, same source water, same everything some did get cloudy others did not.
The only true way to know when your nitrates peak up is to test the water with a liquid test kit.
 
#6 ·
heh -- instructions are there and state that the cycling process shouldn't have fish, if he does then he's just adding fish too early. IE - listening to people from petco/petsmart
 
#11 ·
ok done my testing and results are as follows:

PH in tank = 9.5
PH from tap = 8
Nitrite = 0.1
Nitrate = 20
Ammonia = 0

My understanding from everything I've read is that other than the ph, everything else is fine? (could be to do with the 2x 90% water change over the last 2 weeks)
 
#12 ·
Nitrite (NO2) Like ammonia nitrite is highly toxic to fish, therefore make sure it does not rise above a concentration of 0.2mg/l. If that happens and you have a test result way past that, do a 50% water exchange. This can also rise and be influenced by feeding too much, so consider for yourself how much you feed every day and maybe cut down.

Nitrate (NO3)Nitrate is the end product if you will of mineralization in your tank and even in relativly high concentrations not toxic to fish, BUT it has a negative effect on plant growth and the overall well being of touchy species, last but not least a elevated NO3 enhances the growth of algae and you won't want that. Because of all this, keep an eye on it and make sure it stay's below 50mg/l.
NO3 can easily be kept within proper range by doing a weekly w/c of about 20%

PH is directly linked to your KH. Not knowing your KH I can only assume that you have something within your tank such as gravel or rocky decor that gives off hardness, thus elevating your KH and so with elevating you pH from what your source water is.
This however may be the reason what cost you your Tiger Barbs, they pref water's in the range of 6-7.5 pH being so much past their range can be easily what killed them. I'm not sure what other fish you have but a lot of fish out there prefer lower pH and yours and it may be a option for you to figure out with us what hardnes your tank water this far up and eliminate it before it causes you more issues with fish keeping.


Hope this helps you.
 
#13 ·
Never mind find my own answer on page 1 you have a Axolotl in the tank.
They also require a lower pH to stay healthy in the long run, generally its advised to house them in waters pH 6.5-7.5 and Temps ideally around room temp 60-68 F that does not exceed 75 F.

I hate to be the one saying this, but with the Axolotl's need in combo your high pH you're limiting yourself down pretty much when it comes to fish keeping.
 
#14 ·
Thanks for the heads up Angel079, I guess my next step would be to find out the kh of the water. I don't have anything out of the ordinary in the tank, just the following fish tank ornaments: 2 pieces or roman column, a 4 piece roman goddess statue, 4 plastic plants, 3 plastic moss balls, statue of neptune, white gravel, pack of bioorb rocks and some cheap smooth pebbles bought from a non fish shop (could it be these raising the ph?)
I currently don't have a kh test kit but will get one as soon as possible and post the results.
Many thanks for your advice
 
#15 ·
I'm assuming all the decor and plants are plastic right?
Do you have any live plants or are considering to get any? These are extremely beneficial as they pretty much act as a natural filter if you will.
Rocks and the pebbles could be a cause, just take 'em out and drop vinegar on it see if it fuzzes, if so its indicating giving of too much hardness (then given this hardness off into your tank, which raises your KH and that then raises you pH as well).
I'd definitely suggest trying to figure out the cause and/ or only get fish in there once its established that can handle such high pH. Really the only ones I can think of from the top my head would be Cichlid's BUT they need higher Temps then what your Axo can tolerate, so finding fish that like your high pH and LOW temp's to keep with you Axo will need quite some research, on pages like here Knowledge Base - Seriously Fish
 
#16 ·
Not all the decor is plastic, the roman decor is made from some sort of chalky white resin to match the white gravel - hense the desire to clean so much when the brown algea appears...white was not a good colour scheme to go for!!! I'll take a few pebbles, rocks and gravel out this evening and try the vinegar test and see what happens, if they pass the test I'll move on to the roman columns / statues and test those.

It must be one of those peices causing a ph rise as the tap reading showed an 8.0 yet the tank a 9.5. Could the high ph also be causing the severe brown algea outbreak?

Will post the results of the vinegar test this evening...fingers crossed I find the culprit!
 
#19 ·
Could the high ph also be causing the severe brown algae outbreak?
No I highly doubt that, the brown algae feeds off things like poor lighting and excess nutrition in the tank and nitrates.
Unscrew the bulb and look, It'll have a name on it.Most combo set's have these 'standard' bulbs, which not having live plants is not too terrible atm but you may want to consider upgrading it to a full spectrum bulb. It appears as though certain spectrum's of light enhance algae growth while others don't.

So what I'd do if it was my tanks (and there's other opinions on this as well I'm sure, so let's hope the others join the discussion)
- I'd exchange the bulb
- Run lights some 10-11hrs/day
- Keep up weekly w/c of about 25%
- Feed either very little each day, or only feed every other day

Here's a few suggestions that I'd personally go for, but they will cost some $...To counter the excess nutritious that the algae feeds off of and act as bio filter I'd add several fast growing stem plants such as Cabomba, Ludwiga, Vallis etc (Most stem bunched plants are anywhere's from $1-2 per bunch)
 
#17 ·
Tested every bit of decor in the tank with vinegar and no sign of fizzing on anything, gravel, biorocks, pebbles, roman columns, statues - everything!

So back to square 1. Cleaned all the decor but didn't do water change (you'll all be pleased to hear), have decided to buy some bottled water tomorrow and replace 15% of the tank water with bottled water and see what happens to the ph. Am also still waiting on peat moss to put in filter so maybe the 2 combined could be a solution?

Have also asked my other half to pick up a kh test kit tomorrow so I can test this before adding any bottled water because I'm assuming not much will happen if the kh reading is sky high.
 
#18 ·
Peat will def lower your hardness and so with your pH.
When using R/O water (bottled) for the first time you need to do it SLOW any sudden changes in pH (which is what will happen with the R/O) can not only stress out your Axo totally but also be harmful to the extent of fatal if done too quick. So pers I'd do something like 1 cup every other day to slowly change the water, if not less then that.

However that said what's gonna happen now, you start with pH 9.5, get it let's say down to 7.5 over time. Then when you do your w/c you HAVE TO ensure you hit that exact water mixture between your tap and the R/O again to maintain the 7.5 If you don't do that to the T every week the up & down fluctuations are simply bad for your Axo and any fish that may move in eventually.
 
#20 ·
Thanks, I'll add a cup every 2 days as you suggested so not to cause my Axo any stress. I'll also mix bottled water with tap water until I get 7.5 ph when doing w/c before putting it in the tank, at least that way I can be sure to maintain ph levels - not the best option but it's a solution none the less. Will also look into the fast growing stem plants after xmas.

Thanks for all your advise, will still post kh levels tomorrow and continue to update with the tanks progress...you never know, one day my water may get down to acceptable level to house fish!!!
 
#22 ·
You have a liquid test kit right? Just test your pH, do 1 cup R/O water mixed into your tank and test it. If it barley shows or not at all, you can use more at one time. If it spikes too high use less at one time.

I pers never done the R/O -Tap mixture, I only used peat, which worked great for me, but I also didn't have quite the sky rocking pH like you have.

And neither one of these versions will cause algae issues. Chemicals might do this but not R/O or peat (which is why I pers believe to keep chem's outta your tank lol)

There's really NO telling how your water may become over time. I had 7 tanks set up at one time, all same source water and ALL had different pH & hardness, ALL of them, even the one's with the exact same gravel used....That's why the fish world is so complex and there's always at least a handful answers to one single question :)

You're on a very good track there, I think you'll do fine over time. Add some plants as/ when you can, let that run for a while to establish properly with you Axo in it and add fish few weeks down the Rd slowly (and that alone there will change your water readings AGAIN lol).

Would be neat to follow the process of your tank if you felt like keeping us posted! Also will help other newcomers later on to be able to learn from your progress steps :)
 
#23 ·
ok, kh and gh test kit bought, did both tests and the results are shockingly high, GH = 240 mg in the tank and KH = 170 mg in the tank. Tested the tap water alone and GH = 260mg and KH = 180mg...no wonder I'm having ph problems!!! Bought 4 ltrs of bottled water, put in a bit at a time, tested the water and basically had to put in the full 4 ltrs to even see a slight decrease in ph levels!!! At this rate I'll only need a drop of tap water per 1 ltr of bottled water to get a normal ph level.

PH is now down to 9 in the tank (it was 9.5). Peat moss is on its way apparently so this should help things a little.
 
#24 ·
Are you sure these readings are mg/l not rather measured in "ppm". Hardness measured in mg/l is usually something like 1, 2, 3 maybe 7-8 ...
Assuming its measure in ppm with your kit that would then be a GH of 13 and KH of 9 which is still quite up there on the scale of hardness, however assuming this is right KHK 9 and pH9 that combo sounds reasonable.

I hate to say this now and I do say up front I strongly encourage you to try, but I don't even know how much peat will do for you (given the little amount you can add to your filter or hang in the tank) to really influence such hard water. Like you said with the R/O water, you actually need to then fill the tank with R/O and mix a LITTLE tap in it.

Good news thou if you look at it, your tank is going down! So the biological process does already soften it up some compared to your tap water and this over time may even get better (I mean not down to no hardness and little pH but some better).

I just really think in this tank, the elevated Nitrate, the level of hardness and mostly the tank being newly set up is the combo that makes you have this algae problem.

Now to fish & Axolotl matter:
Axototl is the first issue, since it already is there, now I pers never had one, but researching its needs, I found pH 6.5-7.5 and a GH 6-16degrees and Temp 60-68. So for its long term well being I'd either find a permanent water solution to soften it at least some or give him up to someone who has softer water. I'd at least want to try housing it in something rather at pH 8 and GH10, so somewhat lower then what you have.

Now your next issue will be fish that A) Aren't regarded as food by your Axo B) will have the same water needs and C) The same LOW temp needs and that part will be tricky cause most tropical fish will require a higher Temp then the Axo can max handle.
Alternatively and that would be my personal choice, leave this tank as a Axo tank souly and set up a secondary tank for fish such as Cichlid's (or any fish that will be happy with the tap water you have so you don't have this issue there).
 
#25 ·
Received my peat moss in a tea bag style netting, it's far bigger than I expected so no way I can fit that in the filter compartment, will probably end up weighing it down and placing it under the filter - would this work in the same way as placing it in the filter?

Also the readings were ppm I think, I had to put 17 drops of the kh liquid into the test tube before it changed colour, and 12 drops of the gh liquid before the colour changed.
 
#26 ·
I'd hang it int he tank some way, close to the filter outlet.

I really don't know what else to say about your water then what I already suggested. Long run it would def bne MUCH easier & cheaper to go with fish that tolerate your water, rather then e.g. the Axo and try adjusting water for it.

Hey another idea thou, donno where you live, but do you have access to a rain barrel our country side pond for that matter? That could be tested and possibly used for the tank too. Or well water as well (maybe a kind neigbour that will let you get few gallons/ week)!?
 
#27 ·
I'm on the south East coast of the UK in the middle of town so no wells anywhere (as far as I know). Have had the peat moss in for a few days so will test the ph again to see how it is, although I have noticed the Axo seems much happier, he's been out and about the tank all day as opposed to hiding in a corner all day long...must be a good sign!
 
#28 ·
Awesome to hear the Axo is doing better!!! Congratulations!
South east...how far from Essex? I used to go to school there when I was teen :)
 
#29 ·
Good news, peat moss has taken ph level down to 8.5 (still not great but workable). Am thinking of getting a Britta water filter jug which I can use to filter the tap water further instead of buying bottled water, if I continue to use this filtered water from the jug for water changes each week the ph should slowly settle further and it won't cost a penny (other than buying the jug in the first place but it has other uses around the home so I can live with that).

I'm a fair few miles away from Essex, literally on the coast - Brighton
 
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