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my plants are turning brown

11K views 48 replies 7 participants last post by  Byron 
#1 ·
My plants are turning brown and I'm not sure why. My tank is a 50 gallon and it's well established. I have:


Dwarf Sagittaria
Riccia Fluitan
Taiwan Moss
Amazon Sword
Leopard Valisneria


Plus a Sponge filter with a bubbler attached. NO other filtration. My tank is very well established (been up for years now). My substrate is new though. I got rid of the old rocks and put in Echo Complete. There was a lot of "crud" kicked up after I took out the rocks but it's all settled now.

Today I added some seachem flourish exel. Do you think that will help? Why would they be turning brown?

I have 4 bristlenose plecos but I don't think they destroy plants.

I'd hate to lose these plants. I recently purchased them and would hate to lose the money. They have been in my tank for week.

My PH is around a 6 or 6.5 right now. all my levels seem to be fine.
 
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#2 ·
I'd hate to lose these plants. I recently purchased them and would hate to lose the money. They have been in my tank for week.

[/QUOTE]

The plants will die and grow back. Don't worry they're just adjusting to your water.
Good Luck :)
 
#6 ·
Has this always been a planted tank? Do you have the correct lighting? Try adding some Seachem Flourish it is a better overall fert, the excel is okay but its just a carbon replacement. You could have other issues. I personally like the Eco Complete, it works very well for me.
 
#7 ·
Yes, there may be much more here. Can you describe your light in detail. And, aside from the substrate, are you adding any fertilizers and if so, which and how often?

New plants often lose the existing leaves which is fine provided new leaves are appearing. This is due to a couple of factors; how they are propagated by the nursery, and the simple fact of different water parameters/light. I would like to know the answer to the above questions though, as the initial setback can become permanent if light/nutrients are not sufficient. A photo of the tank might help too.

Byron.
 
#8 ·
I have a Glo T5 HO Linear Fluorescent Lighting System Single bulb with a Coralife 80413 6700K T-5 High Output Fluorescent Lamp, 39-Watt bulb.

This has not always been a planted tank but has been for quite a few month's now.

I have the seachem flourish tabs that I just put in a few weeks ago as well as the liquid version.

The sword has died back multiple times and always ends up turing brown.
 
#11 ·
The light should be fine. How long is it on each day?

Flourish Comp once a week is fine, though I might suggest twice weekly. But first, what is the GH of your tap water? You mentioned pH in the 6's which is good, but the GH is where most of the "hard" minerals (calcium and magnesium) occur, so knowing this may clue us in to something. Rather than test for GH, you can get this from the water supply folks, they may have a website.

Are you doing weekly water changes? And how much?

Byron.
 
#12 · (Edited)
When I called a few month's ago they said our water is between 7 and 14 MC. (so very soft they said).

I just did a 50% water change 2 weeks ago. I think I should probably be doing a water change weekly however I'm unsure as to how often I need to do that.

I won't be getting any other fish for a while I want to give my plants time to grow and may get some more after a while. I also need to determine if I want to keep all of my bristle nose pleco's. I hope they aren't the one's ruining my amazon sword. I thought someone told me the small one's don't ruin plants but I"m starting to wonder.


My light is one for 12 hours a day
 
#13 ·
This explains things. And now that I've looked closer at your photograph, it confirms it.

You need to raise the GH. What we term "hard" minerals like calcium and magnesium are the minerals that largely determine the GH of water. And while these minerals are included in the good commercial fertilizers (like Flourish Comp and Brightwell's FlorinMulti) the amount is not sufficient to make up for very soft water. Most areas of NA and the UK have medium hard or harder water, so these minerals will be in ample supply. Those of us like you and me who have very soft water must add them.

The easiest way I have found is with a product like Seachem's Equilibrium. I have experimented with crushed coral, aragonite and dolomite. If you can find dolomite, it can work; I found the other two did little to raise the GH but sent the pH through the roof. Equilibrium does not do this. For your 50g, about two level tablespoons of Equilibrium added after the water change should suffice to maintain the GH around 5 or 6 dGH and this will provide sufficient calcium and magnesium for the plants but not harm soft water fish.

There are two other products I am aware of that also deal with this GH issue. Brightwell Aquatics' has a line of plant products called Florin, and they make a GH booster. There is also a new line from Seachem called AquaVitro, and it has a GH product. I'm using the Equilibrium because long-term it is much less expensive and I have several tanks running.

Water changes are best every week. About 1/3 of the tank should work for you, though 1/2 would be even better. I change 50% of my tanks every week, but I have more fish in them and they are heavily planted.

Byron.
 
#20 ·
flim on my plants

Any idea what this is? I supplement with flourish (not excel) 2x a week and do a weekly 50% water change.

my levels are:

PH : way to high it peaked at 8.8 but that's as high as my PH tester kit goes
GH 196.6 (11 drops)
Ammonia: 0.25-0.50
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0

I have no fish right now. I'm not sure if that's an issue or not but the reason I don't have any is because the fish I want are expensive and I don't want to buy them just to have them die. I'd rather get the water levels where they should be and my plant flourishing.

any idea what I'm doing wrong?

Also I have a ton of snails. is that an issue?

My amazon sword (blurry picture) still has brown leaves. I can't get it to grow at all.
 

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#21 ·
Sorry if i missed anything.
Seachem flourish is primarily micro nutrients.

for the root feeders you should provide them with some root tabs as the sword is showing classic signs of nitrate deficiency. without any stocking in the tank there is no source of nutrients for the plants either ;)
 
#23 ·
I think there's something else here, from the photos. BTW, the film on the moss is algae, so the light may be on too long; what is the duration? And can you specify the light (it may be related to the sword too)?

The sword...Mine in the tank with Flourite (which is basically the same as Eco-Complete that you have) did the same. I don't know if there is a direct relation, but... . The root tabs you use should help though.

Your GH is sufficient if the number is correct, but what are you using to raise this? Previously in the thread your tap water was near-zero GH.

I would not mess with Excel. It is a toxic chemical that can cause more trouble than help. I've written elsewhere about this.

Byron.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Coralife 6700K T-5 High Output Fluorescent Lamp is the light that I'm using. Last time we talked it was determined that the light was on to long so i turned it down to only being on for 8 hours a day.

I've been using root tabs since the tank was set up. (earlier last year) and the amazon sword still turns brown. They are a beautiful plant but I'm debating chucking it...I just can't seem to get it to grow. Which is weird because YEARS ago when I had a fancy guppy tank the amazon sword got so big it took over the tank.

Previously I thought we determined my GH was to high ( I was supplementing with Equilibrium every time I did a water change.) I've stopped supplementing and the GH is coming back down to a more normal level. From what I've read online it should be no higher then 10DH (is that 10 drops?) I will continue to test GH with every water change and determine, based on the number, if I need to start putting Equilibrium in it again. Is each drop equivalent to 1 DH? I've read online that it should be between 5 and 10 DH for most fish. Is that correct?

You are correct. My tap water only takes 3-4 drops to make the color turn green on the GH test.

I don't use excel. I was at first but I stopped after we discussed changing to flourish complete.


Right now I do a 50% water change weekly. AFter the change I put a cap of flourish complete in it. 3 days later I put another cap. I also suppliment with the root tabs every 3-4 month's. Other then that I have a sponge filter hooked to a bubbler and that's it.
 
#25 ·
Coralife 6700K T-5 High Output Fluorescent Lamp is the light that I'm using. Last time we talked it was determined that the light was on to long so i turned it down to only being on for 8 hours a day.
I'm remembering this issue now. I wouldn't reduce the light yet. You had initially asked what the fluff was, but it doesn't seem bad; I get similar in the moss on the tops of my standing wood as it is nearest to the light. Floating plants help with this.

I've been using root tabs since the tank was set up. (earlier last year) and the amazon sword still turns brown. They are a beautiful plant but I'm debating chucking it...I just can't seem to get it to grow. Which is weird because YEARS ago when I had a fancy guppy tank the amazon sword got so big it took over the tank.
This happens. I have E. bleherae in three tanks, and only in one (the one with the Flourite) is it like this. In the other two it is lush and green, with flower stalks galore. It is a nutrient issue obviously, but I can't as yet pin it down. Last week I tore this tank down, replacing the Flourite with sand, and added a root tab plus of course the Flourish Comp, so I will see if it improves.

Previously I thought we determined my GH was to high ( I was supplementing with Equilibrium every time I did a water change.) I've stopped supplementing and the GH is coming back down to a more normal level. From what I've read online it should be no higher then 10DH (is that 10 drops?) I will continue to test GH with every water change and determine, based on the number, if I need to start putting Equilibrium in it again. Is each drop equivalent to 1 DH? I've read online that it should be between 5 and 10 DH for most fish. Is that correct?

You are correct. My tap water only takes 3-4 drops to make the color turn green on the GH test.
If it takes 3 drops, that is 3 dGH, and 4 drops is 4 dGH. That is not bad for the tap water, but back before it was near-zero (less than 1 dGH) I thought?

Anyway, yes, I agree to let it lower. The soft water fish will be fine no matter how low it goes; it is only the plants, and 4 dGH is about as low as you want for them.

I don't use excel. I was at first but I stopped after we discussed changing to flourish complete.
I thought Excel was mentioned earlier... I may just be mixing up threads again.:roll:


Right now I do a 50% water change weekly. AFter the change I put a cap of flourish complete in it. 3 days later I put another cap. I also suppliment with the root tabs every 3-4 month's. Other then that I have a sponge filter hooked to a bubbler and that's it.
If the "bubbler" is just the sponge filter normally, fine; it it is some additional bubbling device, I would remove it. CO2 may well be driven out with too much disturbance. I've had no issues with sponge filters.

The root tabs should be no more than 3 months [Seachem says every 3 months], I was using them every two months and have just gone to three to see if it makes a difference. But I wouldn't go beyond 3. I have a list on the fish room shelf with the months listed when I add the tabs on the first water change of the month, so I don't forget. I also have to do filter rinsings every 2 months, and it all gets mixed up.;-)

You could delay the Flourish Comp to the day following a water change, if the conditioner is one that detoxifies heavy metals. Seachem said these will negate the traqce inerals in Flourish, so waiting a day eliminates this. I don't know if it makes that much difference, but I do it anyway. The the second dose 2-3 days after that.

Byron.
 
#28 ·
I'm remembering this issue now. I wouldn't reduce the light yet. You had initially asked what the fluff was, but it doesn't seem bad; I get similar in the moss on the tops of my standing wood as it is nearest to the light. Floating plants help with this.



This happens. I have E. bleherae in three tanks, and only in one (the one with the Flourite) is it like this. In the other two it is lush and green, with flower stalks galore. It is a nutrient issue obviously, but I can't as yet pin it down. Last week I tore this tank down, replacing the Flourite with sand, and added a root tab plus of course the Flourish Comp, so I will see if it improves.
Do all swords grow flowers and stocks? Mine, even when it was huge never had stalks. I've always wanted to get it to have stalks and flowers though. The one I have I got at a local pet store. WHich may be part of the issue. Maybe it just wasn't hardy enough? All the plants that I have got from a guy on this forum have done GREAT. Maybe I should look into getting a different cut of E. bleherae?



If it takes 3 drops, that is 3 dGH, and 4 drops is 4 dGH. That is not bad for the tap water, but back before it was near-zero (less than 1 dGH) I thought?

Anyway, yes, I agree to let it lower. The soft water fish will be fine no matter how low it goes; it is only the plants, and 4 dGH is about as low as you want for them.



I thought Excel was mentioned earlier... I may just be mixing up threads again.:roll:
Yeah my GH was originally at zero so you remember correctly.

Excel may have been mentioned. I have some but I don't use it any more. (per your recommendation) I may have said it on accident though instead of complete.




If the "bubbler" is just the sponge filter normally, fine; it it is some additional bubbling device, I would remove it. CO2 may well be driven out with too much disturbance. I've had no issues with sponge filters.
This is where I'm confused. I have a Azoo Oxygen plus bio-filter #7. It gets air from the Marina 200 air pump that I have attached to it. Is that an ok set up? Other then that I have nothing. Just my plants (and I do have a BIG thing of Ricca floating so that will help with the light issue.

The root tabs should be no more than 3 months [Seachem says every 3 months], I was using them every two months and have just gone to three to see if it makes a difference. But I wouldn't go beyond 3. I have a list on the fish room shelf with the months listed when I add the tabs on the first water change of the month, so I don't forget. I also have to do filter rinsings every 2 months, and it all gets mixed up.;-)

You could delay the Flourish Comp to the day following a water change, if the conditioner is one that detoxifies heavy metals. Seachem said these will negate the traqce inerals in Flourish, so waiting a day eliminates this. I don't know if it makes that much difference, but I do it anyway. The the second dose 2-3 days after that.

Byron.
Ok I'm not keeping track of when I add the tabs so I"ll start doing that. Should I continue with the flourish Comp even though it may be hurting the sword?

Could my substrate be part of the issue? I have the CaribSea Eco Complete Black Planted Aquarium Substrate.

I really don't want to have to tear this aquarium appart but if I have to I'd rather do it before I go get a few fish.

Also will getting a few fish help? If so I can go pick up some neon tetra's at the local pet store.
 
#29 ·
The tabs I'm using are flourish tabs. Are those ok or are there better one's? I need to order more so if I should get something different let me know.

Also could snails be adding to my problems at all? I have at least 1/2 a dozen or more in my tank. They must have come on some of the plants I ordered recently
 
#31 ·
The tabs I'm using are flourish tabs. Are those ok or are there better one's? I need to order more so if I should get something different let me know.

Also could snails be adding to my problems at all? I have at least 1/2 a dozen or more in my tank. They must have come on some of the plants I ordered recently
I use Flourish Tabs.

Snails are not the issue here. I assume these are the small ones, like pond or bladder snails. I have these, and Malaysian Livebearing Snails too. Hundreds in my tanks.
 
#30 ·
Do all swords grow flowers and stocks? Mine, even when it was huge never had stalks. I've always wanted to get it to have stalks and flowers though. The one I have I got at a local pet store. WHich may be part of the issue. Maybe it just wasn't hardy enough? All the plants that I have got from a guy on this forum have done GREAT. Maybe I should look into getting a different cut of E. bleherae?
Read the profile of Echinodorus bleherae. It will answer on the flower, and will explain why this "species" is so variable. If you have questons after that, ask; I wrote the profile, so I would only be repeating all that here.;-)

This is where I'm confused. I have a Azoo Oxygen plus bio-filter #7. It gets air from the Marina 200 air pump that I have attached to it. Is that an ok set up? Other then that I have nothing. Just my plants (and I do have a BIG thing of Ricca floating so that will help with the light issue.
I'm not familiar with this filter, can you post a link to some data? But generally speaking, I would leave it if it is part of the filtration system.

Ok I'm not keeping track of when I add the tabs so I"ll start doing that. Should I continue with the flourish Comp even though it may be hurting the sword?
Yes, the Flourish Comp is likely necessary (you have very soft water, as I do, so plant nutrients have to be added) and unless overdosed it will not hurt plants. The issue with overdosing is that some nutrients in excess cause other nutrients to be deficient because of how the nutrient reacts in the plant. Which is why I am always recommending complete (comprehensive) fertilizers that are balanced.

Could my substrate be part of the issue? I have the CaribSea Eco Complete Black Planted Aquarium Substrate.
I wouldn't think so. But as I mentioned, I had the same issue with swords with Flourite, which is the same type of substrate. I didn't use tabs because one should not have to with an enriched substrate. I don't know why this should be so, it is probably just coincidence.

I really don't want to have to tear this aquarium appart but if I have to I'd rather do it before I go get a few fish.
You should not have substrate fish like corys and loaches with EC or Flourite substrates; the gravel is rough. I had issues with my corys and had to remove them. This is one reason why I was prepared to tear down this tank and reset with sand. Now I have a group of 12 Corydoras habrosus in this tank. Depending upon the intended fish, up to you about changing substrates.

Also will getting a few fish help? If so I can go pick up some neon tetra's at the local pet store.
That will increase the ammonia/ammonium which is the major source of nitrogen. One planted tank person suggested to me that nitrogen deficiency was causing this. In my 70g I wouldn't have thought so. I do have a plant-only tank that is my Quarantine for new fish, and the plants do quite well in this, slower growth but still growing. Though I have no larger swords in this tank, and they are heavy feeders.
 
#32 ·
Read the profile of Echinodorus bleherae. It will answer on the flower, and will explain why this "species" is so variable. If you have questons after that, ask; I wrote the profile, so I would only be repeating all that here.;-)



I'm not familiar with this filter, can you post a link to some data? But generally speaking, I would leave it if it is part of the filtration system.
AZOO CORPORATION

Foam Aquarium Biological Filters: Azoo Oxygen Plus Bio-Filters

I'm not sure what other type of filtration system I should need. I'm open to suggestions


Yes, the Flourish Comp is likely necessary (you have very soft water, as I do, so plant nutrients have to be added) and unless overdosed it will not hurt plants. The issue with overdosing is that some nutrients in excess cause other nutrients to be deficient because of how the nutrient reacts in the plant. Which is why I am always recommending complete (comprehensive) fertilizers that are balanced.



I wouldn't think so. But as I mentioned, I had the same issue with swords with Flourite, which is the same type of substrate. I didn't use tabs because one should not have to with an enriched substrate. I don't know why this should be so, it is probably just coincidence.



You should not have substrate fish like corys and loaches with EC or Flourite substrates; the gravel is rough. I had issues with my corys and had to remove them. This is one reason why I was prepared to tear down this tank and reset with sand. Now I have a group of 12 Corydoras habrosus in this tank. Depending upon the intended fish, up to you about changing substrates.
Neons aren't substrate fish are they? I thought they stayed near the top of the tank?



That will increase the ammonia/ammonium which is the major source of nitrogen. One planted tank person suggested to me that nitrogen deficiency was causing this. In my 70g I wouldn't have thought so. I do have a plant-only tank that is my Quarantine for new fish, and the plants do quite well in this, slower growth but still growing. Though I have no larger swords in this tank, and they are heavy feeders.
So if I"m reading this correctly it would be a good thing for me to get a few fish and see if it helps balance out the tank?

I really want my sword to do well. I'll change the substrate if I have to but for now I"ll stop with the tabs and see if that helps. maybe they are getting to many nutrients? Should I tie the to a rock and let them sit on the surface of the substrate for a bit and see if that helps?
 
#34 ·
Responses to the issues from the last two posts, in order.

Those filters are just basic sponge filters. Various manufacturers make them under different names, I have Hagen Elite and Hydro brands, but they are all the same principle, air is driven through the sponge and this pulls water into the sponge and up the return tube with the bubbles, and dirt is trapped in the sponge. No issues with these.

Neons are not substrate fish, but they remain in the lower half of the tank as they like shade. Substrate fish refers to fish that tend to remain on the substrate most of the time, like catfish (corys, pleco, whiptails, etc) and loaches. These can be bothered by sharp or rough substrates.

You have plants, so there is no reason not to get some fish.

On the pH, just so I'm clear: What is the GH, KH (alkalinity) and pH of the tap water? And the tank water is remaining close to this pH, correct? You need to know these numbers before considering any adjustment to pH as the GH and KH are connected. This article should explain it better:
http://www.tropicalfishkeeping.com/freshwater-articles/water-hardness-ph-freshwater-aquarium-73276/

Temperature at 76F is fine for the plants, and the neons.

Byron.
 
#37 ·
Yes, rinse the sponge filters are each weekly water change.

If the GH of the tap water is 4 dGH [4 drops = 4 degrees, with the API test], and the tank water is 11 dGH, there must be something calcareous in the tank raising the GH. And this will push the pH even higher. This is not going to bode well for soft water fish like neons.

Do you know what is doing this? Gravel/sand of the substrate? Calcareous rocks? Shells, coral?

Byron.
 
#39 ·
I have Eco complete as the gravel. I also have a big piece of driftwood bought at a local pet store years ago so that's not it.

Could it be the manzanita branches I have in there? I have some Christmas fern growing on it so it looks like a tree. I don't think these were prepped prior to putting them in the tank.

I can't think if anything elsi that it could be.

I did use some pond salt months ago. I can't remember why though. I'm wracking my brain as to why I was using it. It was prior to plants though. Should I do a 75 percent water change?

Sorry for any typos . I'm using my phone and autocorrect gets me everytime
 
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