Water chemistry - Page 2 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #11 of 19 Old 10-09-2013, 03:51 PM
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Patents # EP0203741A2

This will help a lot

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post #12 of 19 Old 10-09-2013, 07:37 PM
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something about this thread seems very familiar - same participants, same info
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post #13 of 19 Old 10-10-2013, 04:31 AM Thread Starter
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I wholeheartedly disagree. Rickey is new, and his information is a great deal more detailed and accurate than anything we've seen here before.
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post #14 of 19 Old 10-12-2013, 09:54 AM
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Hello:
Not change the subject but do both forms of ammonia become inorganic nitrogen. If this is the case then inorganic nitrogen can be thought of as NH3 and NH4 and what is the difference between inorganic nitrogen and inert nitrogen from the atmosphere, in terms of usability? Is ammonia created from decay of organic substances a form of organic nitrogen and will all forms of nitrogen be used in plant photosynthesis?

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post #15 of 19 Old 10-12-2013, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Hallyx View Post
I wholeheartedly disagree. Rickey is new, and his information is a great deal more detailed and accurate than anything we've seen here before.
I agree with your disagreement

Where I a chemist instead of a physicist, I'd be more interested in the equations and all. Certainly not information I've seen before, though. As for the same people - I think such an in-depth look has a limited appeal so that's not a surprise.

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post #16 of 19 Old 10-12-2013, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
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This horse ain't dead enough for me.

So, even if Prime uses a more complex reaction to ionize (protonate?) NH3 into NH4 ---a way that doesn't effect pH--- doesn't the NH4 convert back to NH3 based on the pH? ie: lower pH = slower reaction; and higher pH = faster conversion to NH3. Then of course there's the temperature comsideration which is not marginal.

The pH doesn't rise measurably (by me) when this happens. Does it go through that complex intermediary step as well?
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post #17 of 19 Old 10-12-2013, 05:58 PM
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I'll assume this is a serious question and also assume you would prefer it be answered by someone else, but the explanation is the same regardless of who gives it

the answer to your question is that it is not a simple ammonia to ammonium conversion

you seem to trust Rickey; he presented an equation in post #6 showing the (possible) reaction of Prime and similar products (understood to be Sodium Formaldehyde Bisulfite/Sodium Hydroxymethanesulfonate - synonyms for the same compound) with ammonia and neither of the products is ammonium

but you don't need to know any of the chemistry to come to the same conclusion, simple logic will do:

if the ratio of ammonia/ammonium is determined by pH and the mechanism by which Prime detoxifies ammonia does not effect or is not effected by pH, then one must conclude that Prime does not work by converting ammonia to ammonium
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post #18 of 19 Old 10-13-2013, 02:16 PM
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Hello:
Not change the subject but do both forms of ammonia become inorganic nitrogen. If this is the case then inorganic nitrogen can be thought of as NH3 and NH4 and what is the difference between inorganic nitrogen and inert nitrogen from the atmosphere, in terms of usability? Is ammonia created from decay of organic substances a form of organic nitrogen and will all forms of nitrogen be used in plant photosynthesis?

pop
Inorganic nitrogen falls into 3 categories Nitrogen hydrides, Nitrogen oxoacids, and Inorganic amines. Nitrogen fixation is a process by which nitrogen (N2) in the atmosphere is converted into inorganic nitrogen (ammonia NH3). Molecular nitrogen is inert it does not easily react with other chemicals to form new compounds. Fixation free up the nitrogen atoms from the diatomic form. The biological fixation of inert nitrogen is carried out mainly by free-living and symbiotic Diazotroph bacteria although fixation occurs in some lightning strikes.

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post #19 of 19 Old 10-14-2013, 04:49 AM Thread Starter
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Can't find the "Thank" button, sooo...

Thanks for the useful info, Rick.
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