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Fishless bucket cycling...?

This is a discussion on Fishless bucket cycling...? within the Advanced Freshwater Discussion forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> an example, ... an experience a bucket of water, a bubbler, plant trimmings (from the aquarium) that have been dried & chopped/crushed. one would ...

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Fishless bucket cycling...?
Old 01-02-2014, 02:11 PM   #11
 
an example, ... an experience
a bucket of water, a bubbler, plant trimmings (from the aquarium) that have been dried & chopped/crushed.

one would expect with a large handful (after drying & crushing) this would give significant ammonia levels if left to break down in a bucket of water

-no lid, just a bubbler to keep water moving.

... not significant source of ammonia as i left this to wait a week before adding this water to the aquarium.

... Jaysee,
there's a world of different between theory of what could go wrong and actual experience of what happens
-where is your confusion ?

---

one of the biggest road blocks in aquariums i am finding is seeing a reliance on sterility (which i personally view as another word for death - something that nothing can survive with) and fear mongering.

for what i have come across, the aquarium hobby years ago relied on producing an aquarium far more akin to a self-sustaining tank then now, and now many people in the hobby would look at what was going on decades ago and argue till blue in the face "that can't be done, it's impossible", yet that's exactly what people did.

it seems many of our 'modern' innovations revolve around sterile aquariums and we're compensating by maintaining a system that is otherwise incapable of supporting itself, requiring scheduled maintenance from us to compensate for the parts of our mini contained ecosystem that we have removed.

there is a lack of fundamental basics on what is going on to keep our tanks healthy. and to make matters worse an established idea that we must keep the things out of the tank that are required to allow it to have a healthy balance.

so i'm not sure where your confused
is there more going on in my bucket of water, ... probably.

i'm got a ton of questions that to date, in or out of the hobby i am not finding answers to any of these questions.

often enough finding answers like "well these things sort themselves out, so you need not be bothered knowing about the details"

that's frustrating.

but as far as simple answers go

if tapwater has nigher than desired nitrites ...
putting the tap water in a bucket that is left to age and mature
allowing beneficial bacteria to culture and 'cycle'
this IS going to become safe for the tank relatively fast and no one needs to know the details behind it.

sometimes understanding what is going on gets in the way of just letting things do their stuff with a positive end-result

but i can see how this can lead to a breed of person that relies on a system where (s)he is told what they need to make it work and they lack any knowledge or background to understand anything differently

and so we have modern aquarium knowledge that looks at what was going on 100 years ago and there are those arguing till blue in the face "well that idea is just an impossible fantasy that cannot last" ... yet that's exactly what happened.
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Old 01-02-2014, 02:33 PM   #12
 
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I know I'm not the only one that has trouble following your lines of thought. You're posts are just all over the map - touching on this and that but not really dwelling on anything long enough for people to understand where it is you are taking us. I'm not saying this to put you down or anything so don't take it that way. I think you've got some interesting things to say, but the way you share your thoughts is confusing for a lot of people. I can't control how you will react to this but i do hope that you take it in the spirit that it was given - as helpful advice for getting your points across in a way that is better understood by those reading them.

I think I agree with some of the things you are saying. I definitely agree with the counterproductive practice of trying to sterilize everything, but I disagree that "modern" aquariums have such a focus. Only betta people are obsessed with everything being "clean". I do not think that many of them are representative of modern fishkeeping practices.
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Last edited by jaysee; 01-02-2014 at 02:39 PM..
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Old 01-02-2014, 03:15 PM   #13
 
All I do is start the tank with lotsa plants, add fish slowly, and just replace the tank water that evaporates with straight untreated tap.

Tanks last for years with heavy bioloads that way and low or no ammonia/nitrIte cycle spikes. And eventually low or no nitrates and phosphates as well.


my .02
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Old 01-02-2014, 04:31 PM   #14
 
ya, i know i bounce around lots, ... makes research for a the mythical/legendary self-sustaining tank difficult too, one search leads into another so often i can spend a week looking up dozens of different curiosities in different areas and never touch on the same kind of search twice, ... then by the end of the week found 2 more areas to pursue

it does not help me stay focused, that's for sure
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Old 01-02-2014, 04:39 PM   #15
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flear View Post
ya, i know i bounce around lots, ... makes research for a the mythical/legendary self-sustaining tank difficult too, one search leads into another so often i can spend a week looking up dozens of different curiosities in different areas and never touch on the same kind of search twice, ... then by the end of the week found 2 more areas to pursue

it does not help me stay focused, that's for sure


FWIW just because I don't conduct scheduled water changes does not mean my tanks are self substaining.

Just easier to maintain than tanks where water changes are required.


my .02
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Old 01-02-2014, 05:54 PM   #16
 
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Flear, the purpose of a hobby forum like this one is to share and pass along accurate information. While there is a small measure of good info in your presentation, the large amount of inaccurate or counterfactual data approaches the danger mark. I mean dangerous to new or inexperienced keepers and their livestock.
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Last edited by Chesh; 01-02-2014 at 09:19 PM..
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Old 01-02-2014, 09:03 PM   #17
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hallyx View Post
Flear, the purpose of a hobby forum like this one is to share and pass along accurate information. While there is a small measure of good info in your presentation, the large amount of inaccurate or counterfactual data approaches the danger mark. I mean dangerous to new or inexperienced keepers and their livestock.

Hopefully you don't mean "my" beaslbob build type methods.

I have had similiar warnings yet have ran tanks with no water changes for 9 years. Both marine and freshwater.

I just hope your warning don't prevent hobbiest from building tanks that are balanced out and as much "self substaining" as possible.

Last edited by Chesh; 01-02-2014 at 09:21 PM..
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Old 01-02-2014, 10:02 PM   #18
 
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Just a reminder that this thread is in the Advanced Discussions section of the forum, which was created as a place for our more experienced members to explore areas of fishkeeping that may be a bit different from the norm or controversial in nature. Threads like this one are posted in here to avoid confusing or unintentionally misdirecting our beginners. I took the liberty of separating the more basic cycling questions of the original poster from this thread, and creating a new thread in our Beginner Freshwater section, where they are currently being addressed in a way that he is able to understand, and apply to his tank. I am actively monitoring both threads to ensure that everyone stays on-topic, and that the correct information is getting to those members who are in need of it.

Though discussions in this area of the forum may sometimes become a bit heated, I must ask that everyone do their best to keep things polite, on-topic, and refrain from insulting personal comments. We may not always understand, or agree with, the ways of another member, but we are all here to share our experiences - as different as they may be. Feel free to continue this conversation, and by all means don't refrain from questioning the methods of other posters so that we all may understand other perspectives and perspectives better - but please be respectful of others, always.

Thanks!
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Last edited by Chesh; 01-02-2014 at 10:18 PM..
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:19 PM   #19
 
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Yes, you would need to "feed" the bacteria initially and keep feeding it to stay alive. You could feed it with, pure ammonia, rotting fish food, dirt, anything decomposing, ect. Your beneficial bacteria will colonize itself with time (pure ammonia would be the quickest way), but you would need something for the bacteria to colonize on, and oxygen added (consumed by the BB), like an HOB filter with media disputing the water's surface, already mentioned, or a sponge filter with airstone. Your BB would be on your filter media, sponge, or the porous surface it sticks too, not too much of it stays in the water column itself, also already mentioned, so it work the exact same way as taking filter media from an existing established tank. The BB will only reproduce as much as it has to (in the bucket) to keep the cycle happening, or as much ammonia (in any form) you feed it. I guess it would be the most useful for a betta bowl, where you are changing the water completely, although I have never owned a betta.
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Old 01-04-2014, 02:22 PM   #20
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aokashi View Post
You certainly can cycle in a bucket... however you will need a filter, filter media as well as a source of ammonia (usually bottled pure ammonia) :)

Taking some filter media from an already cycled tank and placing that in the filter running in the bucket can help speed up the process.


Sent from Petguide.com App
I meant to quote this.
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