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the beaslbob build

This is a discussion on the beaslbob build within the Advanced Freshwater Discussion forums, part of the Freshwater Fish and Aquariums category; --> Originally Posted by aokashi I'm not sure about the whole no water change thing. i think it may work for some, and crash for ...

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Old 11-08-2013, 02:21 PM   #31
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aokashi View Post
I'm not sure about the whole no water change thing. i think it may work for some, and crash for others.

I set up a ten gallon for my uncle back in may 2012. I used some kind of garden soil capped with a sand substrate....It was the first and last time I ever set up a soil based tank, can't say I'm a fan...

I didn't have time to wait for the tank to establish, so I planted the tank with a mixture of hair grass, rotalas and Charale and threw in 6 endler frys and one betta (which i hoped will keep the population in check... )

Half a year later I come back home to visit and find that my uncle's family switched off the light, heater and filter in favor of saving electricity. They did however place the tank near a well lit window. I also came home to an overfed betta who lazily watched delicious fry dance past him(grandmas and their over doting tendencies...), about 40- 100 guppies (couldn't count them all). And ofcourse they didn't do a single water change like I instructed...


....

Thanks for posting. This agrees with my experience.

FWIW IMHO what you did was smart not just lucky.

so much for these methods are not for beginers and require advanced experienced aquarumists.

my .02
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:03 PM   #32
 
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Originally Posted by beaslbob View Post
Thanks for posting. This agrees with my experience.

FWIW IMHO what you did was smart not just lucky.

so much for these methods are not for beginers and require advanced experienced aquarumists.

my .02
What she came back to was a nasty tank. Fish surviving.. sure but not in conditions ideal or in anyway pleasing to the eye. And again also, not the same thing as your "method". You are argueing that any planted tank is the same?

Last edited by Romad; 02-07-2014 at 01:40 PM..
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:05 PM   #33
 
I got no dog in this fight but seem to me the limiting factor will be denitrification This must take place under some condition in the ecosystems. In general, it occurs where oxygen is depleted, and bacteria respire nitrate as a substitute terminal electron acceptor. Due to the high concentration of oxygen in our atmosphere denitrification only takes place in anoxic environments. Plants assimilation nitrate ion reducing this to ammonia produces one OH- ion. To maintain a pH balance, the plant must either excrete it into the surrounding medium or neutralize it with an organic acids. This will result in the water becoming alkaline. Now granted that with superior plant growth the trimming process would remove nitrogen from the environment but I can't see plant trimming reducing nitrogen to the point of no water changes. And I won't go into DOC in the water column.

R
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:18 PM   #34
 
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I got no dog in this fight but seem to me the limiting factor will be denitrification This must take place under some condition in the ecosystems. In general, it occurs where oxygen is depleted, and bacteria respire nitrate as a substitute terminal electron acceptor. Due to the high concentration of oxygen in our atmosphere denitrification only takes place in anoxic environments. Plants assimilation nitrate ion reducing this to ammonia produces one OH- ion. To maintain a pH balance, the plant must either excrete it into the surrounding medium or neutralize it with an organic acids. This will result in the water becoming alkaline. Now granted that with superior plant growth the trimming process would remove nitrogen from the environment but I can't see plant trimming reducing nitrogen to the point of no water changes. And I won't go into DOC in the water column.

R
I am totally unaware of that process and in years of posting I have never heard that before. Can you provide me a reference where plants tank nitrate and reduce it to ammonia?

I am very aware that plants consume nitrates (when no ammonia is available) plus phosphate plus some other nutrients, plus co2, and return oxygen. In that process plant tissue/food is produced along with the returned oxygen. So it seems to me that anaerobic denitrification would be unnecessary. Especially when the plants have made the tank a net consumer of co2 and producer of oxygen each 24 hour period.

I have heard of anaerobic processes as in deap sea beds in marine tank (with limited algaes present). In that process the nitrates are reduced to nitrItes and then to nitrogen gas. A when not working in that manner can in fact further reduce the nitrItes to ammonia instead of the nitrogen gas. Which obviously is not a healthy environment as the ammonia then would then add to the "bio load" for the aerobic bacteria. Not to mention the sulfer compunds produces also.

I am also aware that reducing co2 rasies pH with KH remaining constant. Hence my high PH values (8.4-8.8 purple on the api high range test kit) indicating low co2 in the system.

But then I am still learning. Meanwhile my old tanks did just fine for years and years.

Still just my .02
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Old 11-08-2013, 05:25 PM   #35
 
Nitrate transport: a key step in nitrate assimilation
Fran¸coise Daniel-Vedele∗, Sophie Filleur and Michel Caboche


"Nitrate is the major source of nitrogen for the vast majority
of plants. It is first reduced to nitrite by nitrate reductase
(NR), nitrite being further reduced into ammonium by
nitrite reductase (NiR). Nitrate assimilation has been the
matter of many studies and has been reviewed by Hoff et
al. [1], Crawford [2] and more recently by Daniel-Vedele
and Caboche [3] and Campbell [4]. Of particular interest,
is the study of the post-transcriptional control of nitrate
reductase activity."

R
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Old 11-08-2013, 05:32 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by beaslbob View Post
I am also aware that reducing co2 rasies pH with KH remaining constant. Hence my high PH values (8.4-8.8 purple on the api high range test kit) indicating low co2 in the system.

Still just my .02
Your high pH values indicate high pH. By your theory both of my planted aquariums should be running at that pH each night when CO2 is at it's lowest. Instead the run at 6.0. You're also not taking into account that plants produce CO2 at night.

Long story short, carbonic acid is not the only determining factor for pH.

Last edited by Chesh; 11-08-2013 at 07:19 PM.. Reason: ALPHABET POWER!
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Old 11-09-2013, 10:21 AM   #37
 
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Your high pH values indicate high pH. By your theory both of my planted aquariums should be running at that pH each night when CO2 is at it's lowest. Instead the run at 6.0. You're also not taking into account that plants produce CO2 at night.

Long story short, carbonic acid is not the only determining factor for pH.

While carbonic acid is not the only factor in pH, your theory on night time pH is just plain wrong. CO2 is highest at night and the pH drops at night. Higher co2 less pH.

IME pH is highest just before lights out which is why I recommend measuring pH at that time. The nightly pH drop is mitigated with sufficient kH.
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Old 11-09-2013, 12:48 PM   #38
 
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You guys and your plants.....
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Old 11-09-2013, 01:03 PM   #39
ao
 
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You guys and your plants.....
What? *shock* the only reason anyone gets fish is to compliment their pretty aquatic plants! you're totally missing out!


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Old 11-09-2013, 01:07 PM   #40
 
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You guys and your plants.....
LOL!
Quote:
Originally Posted by aokashi View Post
What? *shock* the only reason anyone gets fish is to compliment their pretty aquatic plants! you're totally missing out!


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Well sometimes I get fish(or inverts) to see what interesting decorating or destruction they can do with my plants.
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