the beaslbob build - Page 18 - Tropical Fish Keeping - Aquarium fish care and resources
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post #171 of 189 Old 02-14-2014, 10:42 AM
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I don't know....I just think that if you wanted your method to be taken seriously that you would be more forthcoming with requested information and more eager to address people's concerns. By talking in circles and answering questions with questions, it's hard to believe that it is your goal to be taken seriously, and if that's not your goal then I have to ask what is. Not gonna hold my breath for an answer.
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post #172 of 189 Old 02-14-2014, 10:52 AM
Originally Posted by Austin View Post
To me it's sad to subject "hardy" fish to poor conditions just because they can tolerate it. If this technique doesn't work for more sensitive fish, what value does it have if you can just keep some hardy fish alive?
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If it's the same environment that they are used to living in, then isn't that good? If nothing at all, the "beaslbob build" outlines the benefit of live plants in an aquarium.

My HOB filter does nothing more than trap suspended particles that are floating in the water. It's other function is to break the surface tension by waterfall thus introducing oxygen into the water. If you consider that the particles are taken to account by becoming plant food and oxygen is released into the water by the plants then the HOB filter's role has been eliminated by the plants. I'm not sure whether or not this is a sufficient amount of oxygen. I'd still want an air pump in there to agitate the water and provide some extra oxygen but that's just me.

Last edited by Crazyfish; 02-14-2014 at 11:12 AM.
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post #173 of 189 Old 02-14-2014, 04:09 PM
i don't have stats on my (one) tank
largely because i don't have any tests apart from pH & ammonia

ammonia, i'm guessing is 0.2-0.3 - no, there is no such thing as a true zero, as that would mean your nitrogen cycling bacteria has crashed due to starvation. ... would also mean your fish have been removed and your plants are either gone or there is less than zero plant decomposition

but thinking about the nitrogen cycle, this also means your plants are dying (no nitrogen nutrient) and now your back to an empty tank with nothing alive in it to allow any ammonia in the tank.

i have a ph of 7.0 due to a buffer, ... otherwise it's off the scale of my pH test kit

i've mentioned this before, ... dono about this thread, but a few others.


as for where i go with this, ... if i do manage a self-sustaining tank, ... that's a 3 generation test, ... the initial fish (lets go with a life-span of 3 years), ... i need a tank that's been running 10 years, ... or at least 6 and still alive

beaslbob, ... yes, breeding in the aquarium is a sign of health, no breeding, ... well genetics tends to say when conditions are not favorable to consider future generations don't do it.


back to my tank, ... no i have no stats to speak of, ... i also have no kits to test those desired stats with.

there's little information on building a self-sustaining tank, ... so little infact that there is likewise no information on what to look for or consider if you do want to do this.

i do recal that when i had extensive plant coverage (beyond overgrown) my pH was 6.5 & very very stable, so much so it was frustrating that i couldn't adjust it no matter what i did or tried.

i removed plant mass and suddenly my pH was ... i dono, i'm going to side with similar to beaslbobs tanks (8.0+)

now only guesswork, the plants were making sure the pH stayed at that level, ... that's impressive to me.

doesn't mean this is the correct answer.

i am going to side with doing what i can to keep the numbers in a near softwater status, ... if i can do that, then i've got a start, ...

i do appreciate peoples input recently on TDS, and even the guess that pH can be an indicator of hard/soft/TDS.

my next step is to get test kits for this, ... and see what is actually going on.

i could get all kinds of test kits before, but without an idea what i was looking for, or why, they're test kits that don't mean anything to anyone other than "this is where your tank is at"

yes, my tank like beaslbobs doesn't mean a lot (not as much as some people are looking for), ... but i can do what beaslbob is doing and ask for peoples faith, ... or i can look into it and see how far i can push things.
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post #174 of 189 Old 02-14-2014, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by beaslbob View Post
Jaysee, Austin, et all.

Ok I get it.

I post procedures.

I post parameters.

I post pictures.

I post newbie reports.

I post mathmatical models of how and why it works.

All of which you ignore because you don't believe the results.

Not much more can be done.

I just hope newbies can get over all that, look at the parameters and results and give it a try.
I've seen one photo from nearly a decade ago and a few parameters. If you want people to change what theyve been doing successfully for years, you need a lot more solid, organized backing. Although, honestly, I've only read bits and pieces of this thread so I may have missed some information so I've tried not to express my opinions too much, since it isn't worth much if I have not tried to understand the opposing view.... But, from what I understand this isn't some novel idea. I haven't bothered to try to understand the math, because this technique doesn't really have my interest. I won't risk my fish's health to try this, nor will I have an eye sore in my room-- in one week I have a ton of poo sitting on my sand. I cannot Imagine 6 months worth... so, I'm just trying to correct anything that is misinformation when I see it. I'm mostly watching this thread because its entertaining....
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Last edited by Austin; 02-14-2014 at 05:05 PM.
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post #175 of 189 Old 02-14-2014, 05:11 PM
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Speaking of entertainment.. Well you know that video a few pages back of a "newbie " setting up a tank with his method ?
Yea, that's his aunts tank that he set up for her.. Talk about misleading wording , no? Lol

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post #176 of 189 Old 02-14-2014, 05:15 PM
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What video?
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post #177 of 189 Old 02-14-2014, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by beaslbob View Post
and here is a short video of a 10g following the beaslbob build by an inexperienced aquariumist

This video .. However it am only worked on my laptop

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post #178 of 189 Old 02-14-2014, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by beaslbob View Post
Let me see if I understand this.

Unless I breed fish noone else does or at least is considered very hard to breed, then "my" system is totally useless?
No, I never said, nor inferred that. I have not been provided with enough data to make that call. I provided you with a method of taking this to the next level, with hopefully repeatable results as well as further documentation. Your methods have been doubted by others in this topic, mainly due to this being lacking. Until this is provided I’m not going to say yea or nay.

Even if fish live for years and years and I never see a first fish (cycle) type death.
This is keeping fish, breeding fish, especially more difficult species would prove a more superior system in regards to animal husbandry.

Even if raw inexpereienced newbies are amased with the results and will always do planted tanks in the future?
I can do & have done the same with newbies, no plants, some mature media & a bag of junk from the hardware store. I don’t promote it as anything special, I’m nobody special, it’s just a different method.

I simply reject that.
I can’t accept or reject this method yet, bring it up to the next level.

Besides my saltwater fish did spawn. [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME~1/ADMINI~1/LOCALS~1/Temp/msoclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]
Cool, I’ve never dabbled in marine, plate is pretty full as it is. If I could do something about those 8 hours wasted daily sleeping I might consider it.
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post #179 of 189 Old 02-15-2014, 12:12 AM
Flear if you tank its throwing 0.2-0.3ppm ammonia that itself is a sign of a problem. Even filterless properly setup you should always maintain a level of 0ppm per the API kit. 0ppm does not mean absolute zero, not by far. It means below detectable levels. Yes there is always ammonia present but there is a difference between 0.2-0.3ppm which are stress levels to most fish and deadly to some. Compared to 1-50ppb ammonia an established tank should have, which is well out of the detectable range of the API kit.

Everyones method is there own. For that purpose alone. You could keep for fish in koolaid for all I really care. Their your fish, not mine. Remember tho the purpose of this site. It is to aide others in the methods that best suit their needs. Not your favorite method. My favorite method is high tech planted but I'm not out there advising everyone to buy their own pressurized CO2 system. If someone is inquiring tho on the best way to setup a high tech tank I'm certainly there to help them. They want low tech... okay, no plants at all.... fine by me.

No one needs proof plants have amazing effects on our tanks, thats been well known for a long time. What is advised in this thread is simply a method. If what you want is to negate fish life and plant life simply due to inability to move some hoses around then thats fine. If you want a tank that manages thats fine. I've yet to see much more being offered here. Since bob started this thread, I've spawned GBRs at least a dozen times, raised and sold some. Plant wise my tanks have produced over $100 since November. I changed water on 2 of my tanks tonight and pulled around 40 boesemani rainbow eggs from my high tech tank to a bare 10. I have over a dozen juvi bows currently growing out already. Are my methods the best... No. They do what I want and thats all really. Honestly flear going by the threads you make here you should take a glance at some of my old threads, might give you some ideas at doing what you wanna do. Theres at least 3 pic heavy threads of setting up soil tanks, which is what I will be doing again tomorrow. Say capless Chesh?

If you think TDS is linked to pH remember I have a range of 6.4-8.0pH though my 7 tanks and TDS isn't terribly different.

@Tolak we both know neither of us sleeps anywhere near 8 hours daily. Besides marine is the dark side....
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post #180 of 189 Old 02-15-2014, 08:08 AM Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Tolak View Post


Cool, Iíve never dabbled in marine, plate is pretty full as it is. If I could do something about those 8 hours wasted daily sleeping I might consider it.

In case you ever decide to go over to the dark side

Originally Posted by newbie marine another board
I would like to take this time to formally thank beaslbob for his persistent recommendation of macro algae & his perseverance in convincing me that they are beneficial to a productive reef community. As per his suggestion I have added the macros at day one of my cycle & have been dumbfounded at the results. At day 8-10 my levels dropped down to 0/0/0. Nowadays I only see small traces of nitrites (.1ppm), a phenomena which I am further investigating
It's also an expample of one of the new hobbiests feedback i receive.

If you ever do "go marine" my simplified advice is simply that $5 of macro algae will do more for your tank the $100's of pumps, skimmers, live rock/sand, etc.

maintain Fw and marine system with a strong emphasis on balanced, stabilized system that as much as possible are self substaning.

have maintained FW systems for up to 9 years with descendants from original fish and marine aquariums for up to 8 years.

With no water changes, untreated tap water, inexpensive lighting by first starting the tank with live plants (FW) or macro algae( marine)

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